JoAnn Crohn, M. Ed is a parenting educator and certified life coach who helps moms become happier and more connected parents by prioritizing themselves. , Founder & CEO No Guilt Mom
493: No More Mom Guilt
JoAnn Crohn
Is guilt bogging you down? Would you like to do more fun things, but don’t feel right taking time for yourself? Hunter talks to JoAnn Crohn of No Guilt Mom podcast about how to prioritize self-care and well being and the choices we have to make. As JoAnn says, “the best mom is a happy mom.”
No More Mom Guilt - JoAnn Crohn [493]
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*This is an auto-generated transcript*
[00:00:00] JoAnn Crohn: I don't wanna have kids because that's what I thought kids were like. You gave up your entire life for your children. You had to be there for them every second of the day, making sure they're taken care of. I thought I would lose my friends. I thought I would lose like all my outside activities and I pushed back so, so hard, and it was because of what I saw growing up or what a parent was.
[00:00:28] Hunter: You're listening to the Mindful Parenting Podcast, episode number 493. Today, we're talking about no more mom guilt with Joann Crohn.
Welcome to the Mindful Parenting Podcast. Here it's about becoming a less irritable, more joyful parent. At Mindful Parenting, we know that you cannot give what you do not have, and when you have calm and peace within, then you can give it to your children. I'm your host, Hunter Clark Fields. I help smart, thoughtful parents stay calm so they can have strong, connected relationships with their children.
I've been practicing mindfulness for over 25 years, I'm the creator of the Mindful Parenting course, and I'm the author of the international bestseller Raising Good Humans and now Raising Good Humans Every Day, 50 Simple Ways to Press Pause, Stay Present, and Connect with Your Kids. Welcome back to the Mindful Parenting Podcast.
What? What? But listen, before we dive in, if you have ever gotten any value from this podcast, please just tell one friend about it. Tell one friend about it, and you help us getting it out to you every week. So yeah, tell a friend if it has helped you. In just a moment, I'm going to be sitting down with Joann Crohn, a parenting educator and certified life coach who helps moms become happier and more connected parents by prioritizing themselves.
She's also the founder and CEO of No Guilt Mom and the No Guilt Mom podcast. We're gonna talk about guilt, obviously. Is guilt bogging you down? Would you like to do more fun things, but you don't feel right taking the time for yourself? Let I talked to Joann about how to prioritize self care and well being and the choices that we have to make.
As Joann says, the best mom is a happy mom. So, join me at the table as I talk to Joann Crohn.
Joann, thank you so much for coming on the Mindful Parenting podcast. I'm so glad you're here.
[00:02:40] JoAnn Crohn: I'm so glad I'm here too. I was like, ever since we got to meet in person, I'm like, this has to happen. We, dear
[00:02:47] Hunter: listener, we got to sit and opt up together. It was so nice. I know. Ha ha ha.
[00:02:53] JoAnn Crohn: In August, which I don't typically get to do because I'm in Phoenix and it's so hot here in August, you don't even want to look at the hot tub, but we were in Colorado for a podcast convention.
It was amazing.
[00:03:04] Hunter: Yeah, and sadly we did not do the lazy river together. No, it was fun. I did that lazy river multiple times. It was a good time. So as you can see that Joann is also a podcaster, podcaster in NoGuiltMom. com, as I said in the intro. So we're going to be talking about guilt. I'm excited to talk about this, but I like to start out with you and how things, you know, things are different now than they were when we were little.
And I'd love to explore your childhood a little bit. How were you raised and what was your childhood like? Yeah,
[00:03:39] JoAnn Crohn: because the reason I started No Goat Mom was actually what I witnessed in childhood from my own mother. Um, I, uh, I grew up, like, two parents at home, uh, my mom worked in hospital administration, my dad was a teacher, uh, computer science teacher, which I give as, like, my reason for being comfortable with technology today.
Uh, he, he had it in the house, like, since I was born, like, we had the first, uh, AOL internet, where I remember, like, those little CDs that you, like, put in the computer and, like, it logged on and, like, the, yeah. Yeah,
[00:04:14] Hunter: exactly. We had a Tandy 1000.
[00:04:19] JoAnn Crohn: Oh, we always had an IBM. IBM. And then we did have an Apple, but it was an Apple with like the green screen before like Apple's became like the whole Mac takeover.
And so it was like way back then. I, um, even though my mom worked full time, um, she was still responsible for many of the household chores. Um, Keeping the house clean, uh, doing like, making sure laundry was done. Although she did have my grandmother come over once a week. My grandmother did laundry. Um, but I, I noticed even as a kid how much stress was on her all the time.
Uh, and my dad would come up and be like, hey, just tell me what to do and I'll do it. And my mom was like, why do I have to tell you what to do? Like, why can't you just see what needs to be done? Uh, and because of this overwhelm, she never took time for herself. She, uh, wanted to work out, I remember once, and like get healthy or get fit.
And there was a gym at her work. I said, Mom, why don't you just stay at work for like a little longer? Like, we'll be fine here. She says, No, no, I need to come home. Your father needs me. You need me. And she would never, ever take that time for herself. So yeah, when I Uh, when I married my, my husband, we got married pretty early, like 24.
And I was like, no, we're not going to have kids yet. I'm not ready. I don't want to, I don't want to have kids because that's what I thought kids were like. You gave up your entire life for your children. You had to be there for them every second of the day, making sure they're taken care of. I thought I would lose my friends, I thought I would lose, like, all my outside activities, and I pushed back so, so hard, and it was because of what I saw growing up,
[00:06:03] Hunter: of what a parent was.
I think a lot of people experience that, like, my life has stopped. I don't have, I don't see my friends very often. I'm not having outside activities, I'm not doing any of those things. Everything is about the kids now, and we're in an era where we're very focused on our kids, we're very anxious about them, like, growing up well, you know, we don't want to mess them up.
Yeah, and so that's interesting. And so you really, yeah, you wanted to avoid, this is what can happen to you parents. Your kids will say, no way am I having kids.
[00:06:44] JoAnn Crohn: It took, like, I, we went to go see my husband's cousin in Denver and, He was starting a company with his wife, and they had a two year old son. And this two year old, like, he was not an easy two year old. I remember we were in their kitchen, and this two year old was taking all of the pots out of the, like, drawers and putting them on the table.
And mom and dad were like, oh, okay, he's okay. And they turned back and they started, they were talking, you know, their business and what they wanted to achieve with their business. And it was then I realized that, oh my gosh, like, kids do not have to take over my entire life. A couple who is actually raising a toddler.
And very focused on growing themselves and growing their business and growing as people. And that was when like the switch flips and I'm like, Hmm, that's interesting. Okay, I'll try these kids. I'll try having them. I'll take
[00:07:38] Hunter: a swing at this. I'll take a swing at that. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I I I I I It's incredible because, yeah, the idea, I remember being very frustrated sometimes when with people and friends and talking to friends that it was always the, the kids came first in every situation and the parents needs always came second.
You could kind of see that in maybe friends that you had, like you're describing these friends where you're like, yeah, the kid's taking care of his needs, but the parent's taking care of their needs, right? The parents want to have a conversation with other adults, they have a conversation with other adults, right?
And I remember sometimes being, you know, frustrated that like, you know, yes, they're Our times are, of course, we want to interrupt our conversations, but maybe not every time, right? There are times where the kids, you can say, wait, and then you can finish your conversation and then you can go back. But there is definitely is a shift towards the, like, the kids come first in everything.
You're seeing that probably, I'm sure. No, I'm not. People you work with too.
[00:08:48] JoAnn Crohn: Oh, yeah. And like, I, I totally see it in my own life too. Like what you say, like, Oh, the kids just put a paper plate with foil on it in the microwave to warm up a piece of pizza and now there's a fire? Yep, gotta stop this conversation and gotta go take care of that before it actually happened.
But, but like the general things about kids coming first. I see that in some of my friend groups right now, and it, it's heartbreaking to me because I also see the overwhelm in so many moms, just working with them through our, our Balanced Community and No Guilt Mom, where you, you have this idea. that your needs cease to matter anymore.
And it's all about keeping the kids either under control, which I see a lot, like constantly policing behavior or making sure the kids are happy at all times. This is something I hear a lot too. I just want my kids to be happy. I just want to make them happy. And. It's such an impossible thing to ever fulfill because we, as parents, have no say in our kids happiness.
And the more we go towards that goal, the more defeated I think that we feel, uh, because it's not true. It's out of our control, like we have no control over our emotions, but we feel like we have to.
[00:10:10] Hunter: Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Where do you think this comes from? This, this whole thing that women, and now parents in general, are supposed to give up their whole lives and the kids come first in every situation.
Where does this, where does this model, this idea, this thing come from? I
[00:10:31] JoAnn Crohn: have, like, my theories. I can, like, armchair expert on them a little bit. The whole, um, I mean, in the 80s, you know, parenting, like, drastically changed when, um, and I forget the, the child's name, but when he was kidnapped in the department store and where then parents became very, very vigilant about their children.
And then his dad started the America's Most Wanted program after that one incident.
[00:10:57] Hunter: The Melt Carton Kidnapping Kids. When we got the milk carton missing kids, because I remember seeing the kids faces on the milk cartons.
[00:11:07] JoAnn Crohn: Remember that? Yes. I remember that. The kid's face is on the milk cartons. Oh, I think my kids would be so scared seeing that today because they, they think like kidnapping is normal and it's not normal at all.
Uh, but it was the situation in the 80s where it was John, um, I forget his name, but he was the host of America's Most Wanted and his son was kidnapped in a department store in a mall. And it was from that event that parents started being like, Oh my gosh, we have to, we have to watch our children at all times because this horrible thing might happen to our kids.
Uh, and
[00:11:40] Hunter: from there. And there was a national campaign, wasn't there, to be like, we're from the government, I think, saying like, do you know where your kids are?
[00:11:48] JoAnn Crohn: Yes! Like the 10 p. m. news? Do you, did you have that on the 10 p. m. news? 10 o'clock. Do you know where your children are? We had that in Tucson on the news.
But this whole, like, idea that, you know, 80s parenting, the type of parenting that we see on Stranger Things from the parents there, uh, 80s parenting was unsafe. And you had to constantly watch your kids and make sure they wouldn't get hurt. Uh, which gave the rise to helicopter parenting. Uh, just making sure that you're kind of like paving the way, uh, nothing bad will ever happen to them.
Uh, and this also comes from, I think that we have a very historical, uh, reasoning for this as well, um, in terms of, uh, well, how our country was. There's this fascinating book that I'm reading right now called On Her Best Behavior. I don't know if you've heard of it. Mm hmm. It's by, it's By Kate Lunan, um, it was one of, like, the best sellers last year.
And it's all about how the seven deadly sins are, uh, like, create this, uh, like, need in, not need in women, but it's really, it's really putting this pressure on women to conform and to, uh, like, live their lives in a way that benefits men and benefits the power structure for men. It's like, it's such a good book.
Highly recommend it.
[00:13:13] Hunter: Stay tuned for more Mindful Mama podcast right after this break.
[00:13:21] JoAnn Crohn: In a historical way, like when we look at especially the church, The church was formed where the men was the head of the family and the women was the head of like the children and took care of raising the children. Uh, but throughout the last century, particularly in the 1970s, you know, 1950s, The mom stayed home, took care of the house, there was all this marketing, like a mom's place is in, uh, woman's place is in the kitchen.
All that stuff came from that era. Uh, and then in the 1970s it changed where, uh, the economy plummeted. And it was impossible for only one person to keep the house going, like to have enough money to raise a family. And so women then had to step back into the workforce. Uh, and not stay at home. And ever since then, it's been this unequal balance of, yes, you're still expected to raise the kids.
You're still expected, uh, to, like, control family emotions. All of these caregiving things, which are usually characterized as feminine, um, you still have. But also, um, you have all these other responsibilities as well. And. It's been unequal that way for a while. For a while. Um, and I have no idea the question you
[00:14:33] Hunter: asked me at the beginning of the show.
We started, we were talking about kind of why this came about, and I think you dove into a lot of the aspects of it. You know, I mean, there is like, I think there is that piece about, like, historically, like, women are overvalued, were not valued as human beings, were valued for the services that they could render men, which is caregiving and housekeeping, right?
So like, there was no inherent value in a woman other than that. And I think that carries through today. And you know, I remember. In the late 80s, like, I had this great freedom, you know, I used to bike all over my town, I used to do all these different things, and then in, I was, must have been, I guess I was like 11, and this, this girl moved in next door, she was 8.
And her, I, I mean, literally, I biked all over my town. Anywhere I wanted to go, I'd be like, Oh, Mom, guess what? I just went to CVS. Oh, really? That's, like, two miles away, like, wow, okay. Um, and this little girl went next door and this little girl was not allowed to go past her driveway. Oh, wow. And it was like, we were all like, Huh?
Why? What's wrong? You know, like, what's wrong with them? Why can't, and that's much more common today. Kids don't even go out and buy by themselves. And it's, it's really, and so anyway, this, that's a whole other conversation. Oh, yeah. Add on to that one. Yeah. We can really add on to that conversation, but like there, then it like becomes more intensification, right?
The more intensification of. a job for parents is, you know, then you have to know exactly where your child is. You want, you know, there's pressure, you know, from our society to keep them entertained, keep them happy. That's crazy, you know, to not have our kids be unhappy at all, and then also under control, which is so interesting because we don't, of course, have control over anyone except ourselves, ultimately.
Exactly. And kids are like little,
[00:16:44] JoAnn Crohn: like, explore, like, I say they cause chaos, but not in a bad way. They're just very exploratory human beings. They like to, like, figure out things in their environment, and they're curious and inquisitive, and sometimes that curious and inquisitive makes this huge mess, which then, like, creates even more stress for parents.
So a lot of it comes from like trying to prevent those messes, trying to, to prevent stuff from happening. And it's this like heightened sense of, Oh my gosh, like this is going to happen at any time. Like I need to, I need to make sure that everything is under control, uh, from. from moms in particular, just because they're the ones who are with the kids all the time.
There's also this undervaluing in our society of what are qual like, typically noticed as feminine qualities. The caretaking, the emotional, like, like care the emotional caretaking, the, the um, Making sure that other people have what they need. Those are so undervalued in our society. So much so that it's taking away all of these services that moms could really benefit from having things like childcare, like how expensive is childcare right now, if you have a really young child, like it is insane, even more insane than when my son was.
in preschool and that was only like six years ago.
[00:18:08] Hunter: 4 an hour for a babysitter now. Like I paid, well, 16 years ago I paid 5 an hour for my mother's helper who watched the kids while I was there, but it was like 10 an hour. Maybe, I mean, that's doubled. That's enormous change. Sorry. Yeah, it's, it
[00:18:26] JoAnn Crohn: is enormous change, but it's also like those people definitely deserve that.
Yeah, yeah. Definitely deserve it. And yet it is not valued in our society so that it's made a priority, like especially here in the U. S. Like the more I talk about this, the more I see how much our society needs to change to support women instead of women trying to constantly take on more and more and more and try to do it with ease.
Because that is just the recipe for failure. And I think that so many moms feel like they're failing right now. And it's just an impossible scenario that they've been put in.
[00:19:07] Hunter: I should say that the mother's helper that I only paid 5 an hour, she was 12. Yes, yes, but that's a great learning experience for her.
But I also think there's a thing here. Of like this achievement orientation of like, we feel only valued if we're doing well, like we're getting the good grades, we're doing things perfectly, especially women, like you have to be the good girl or you have to do things right, or you have to be the A student.
And then, you know, I think a lot of my listeners can relate to that idea of like achievement, like we want to really, really do it well. So a lot of times moms. And, and dads are feeling guilt, even if we're trying our best. But I think especially moms, because dads are like, people are like, Oh, dad, you're there.
That's great. You know what I'm saying? And so they feel that a little bit, but like moms, like maybe doing a bazillion different things, all these things we've talked about, but they're still feeling guilty. Why is that? Where does that, I mean, I don't know. I,
[00:20:13] JoAnn Crohn: so I love this achievement thing because I'm a big achiever.
I love my gold stars. I will like raise my hand if they, if they were giving out stickers, even to adults. I'm like, yes, please, please give me that one. But I can still, let me show you how great I am. It's just like my personality. I've been that way my whole life. But, um, so like in our jobs, in an outside job, outside the home, you have like these set tasks with like a start date and an end date, and when the end date comes, that task is either done or it's not.
Yeah. And you could celebrate if it's done. And you have like these reasons to celebrate. Kids, it's never that way and no one is ever giving you that positive feedback that you deserve. Like I always tell people, like when I was a teacher and I had 35 kids in a classroom, it was so much easier than having two of my own at home.
And it's because as a teacher, I had these Set, like, things. I'm like, okay, let's teach the students, like, fractions. Oh, they got fractions. Yes! Or, like, students would come up to me and be like, oh, Mrs. Crone, like, you're so wonderful. We love you. And, like, that, that's what kids do with their teachers. Moms don't get that.
Moms get the real child. Like, kids present differently in the classroom because they're able to hold it together and they have to hold it together all day. When they come home, all the emotions come out, everything comes out, and then you're not getting that sense of achievement or sense of satisfaction.
All you are seeing is that down, negative parts of their day, even though they're not negative most of the day. But, yeah. That's where it's coming out because it's a safe place. So when you feel like you're doing so much, it's just the, the sense of achievement can never come right away because all you're seeing are people complaining at you and the negatives of things.
Mm. Mm hmm. And unfortunately, it's just how, how it is and what raising kids is. And, you know, we've seen all these studies now about noticing emotions and acknowledging emotions and really like respecting the emotions of people and not trying to get kids to go from sad to happy. We see how hard that is for them and how like this feeling of disconnection when people are forced to do that.
So, a lot of the work we have to take on as moms is very emotionally draining, and It takes everything, it takes everything out of you. So I think that's where a lot of it's coming from because not only is there really no end date to your work, I mean, parenthood lasts forever, but you're also hearing all of the negativity and the complaining and dealing with all the emotions and it's very, very hard and you never get that like pat on the back to say, hey, you're doing a good job.
[00:23:10] Hunter: And this is why we need to not be parenting 24 7. We need those release valves, those pressure valves, and things like that. I mean, the listener, you may have heard me say this before, but Joann, I had, um, Aaron Huey on, who's, he directs, oh, I'm going to get the name of it wrong, but he directs a treatment center for kids who have, or are attempting suicide, and like, they're really the most at risk kids, and his number one.
One advice for parents to not get their kids in this treatment center was like, have time with your mom and dad friends, talk to adults, take care of yourself, was his number one piece of advice to so kids don't get to that place because parents are need that release valve in the circumstances and in the regular circumstances, which are, can feel very extreme, as you described as extremely emotionally draining and things like that.
So how can moms balance the demands of parenting while prioritizing self care, mental health, well being? I
[00:24:22] JoAnn Crohn: think the first thing to know is that, um, like I said earlier, this is an impossible, like there's an impossible amount of things to get done every day. Like, the work is never, ever gonna stop. Um, I was just, uh, talking with my group and one of the women brought up that, okay, well, first it's either, like, my husband needs me, and then, like, my kids need me, and then my dog needs me, and then maybe my mom calls and she needs me, and then when everyone's asleep, then there's housework.
Like, it, the demands on us are never ending. So this idea that we can possibly get everything done is, is just a fallacy. Uh, and it's impossible. And it's one of those things where it's like, I feel bad saying it because it's like, I am a very positive person, but also it's realistic. Like, you cannot get everything done in a day.
So there are choices that really have to be made to preserve your own mental health. Um, and balance it with parenting. Um, I always say the best mom is a happy mom. And what that means is that if you are going through your day angry or resentful, like your kids pick up on that. I mean, just like you said, you were talking to that expert.
There's a study that was talked about in the Washington Post in, I think it was 2012, where, um, it said it wasn't the amount of time that parents spent with their children, like that, um, didn't show any effect on kids, but what showed a negative effect was if the parents were depressed or anxious. or stressed when they were around their children.
And that's not to make anyone feel guilty about that, if you're anxious or depressed or anything. Like anger is actually a great thing to show and to explore and to explain and to repair relationships with. But what it should be telling you is that if you are feeling that anger or resentment, there is something you need to do to take care of yourself.
Because you cannot mask those emotions, that's not how emotions work. It's like stuffing trash down in a garbage can, like eventually you're not going to be able to stuff it anymore. I like that
[00:26:32] Hunter: analogy, it's very appropriate for that situation.
[00:26:36] JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, and it comes out in like the most explosive ways when you try to do that.
So stuffing it down isn't an option, but what has shown to relieve stress is spending time away from your kids, or going and meet up with a new friend, or sleeping, or
[00:26:55] Hunter: like anything. I don't, I think I shared with you guys in, at our podcast, uh, conference that I do Scottish country dance. That's like, yeah, fun thing.
Anyway, I'm going to dance class tonight. That's what I'm thinking about it. But, um, I saw a study like last week that they studied different forms of, um, interventions, uh, movement interventions to combat. Um, Depression and Anxiety, and they explored like jogging, exercise, yoga, um, all these different things.
And the, all of these things helped, but the one thing that helped far and away above everything else was dancing. Yes! Yes! It's music, it makes everything.
[00:27:42] JoAnn Crohn: It makes so much sense. Yeah! It's music, it makes everything. It's like that fun release where you just get to, like, just move with the music. I love dancing.
I think it's a great stress reliever.
[00:27:53] Hunter: But we don't do this. Moms don't do this. I mean, you know, it's interesting, like, in the 80s, like, my mom, one, one thing I think that was a great lesson for me that I didn't realize until I was much older is that my mom, you know, she was a hospice nurse. My dad had a sign making business.
We were, like, lower middle class. We didn't have a ton of money. My mom did riding lessons. She went every week and rode horses. It's not like that's a, like cheap activity or anything, you know? It was like, yeah, but she, it was never a question of, oh, can I do this or should I do this or do I feel guilty about this?
No, there was none of that. No conversation about that. She just did this because it felt good and it served her soul. And it was ne, I just hung around the barn and I fed the horse's carrots and stuff like that. But, um. I think that we, so many people are like, oh yeah, that would be nice, but I can't. I don't have time.
I, I hear that all the time.
[00:28:49] JoAnn Crohn: Guilty, right? And it's like, I always look to my husband and what my husband is doing, honestly, because he is showing me how to live without guilt. I'm like, does he ever ask me? Like, he goes and plays Dungeons and Dragons with his friends. I'm like, he never asked me, is it okay if I go play Dungeons and Dragons with my friends?
He says, Hey, I'm meeting them on 3 p. m. at 3 p. m. on Saturday. And I'm like, cool. I have nothing going on that works. And like, he'll always like talk with me about like, just to make sure I have nothing on my schedule too, because we have kids and that's his responsibility as well, but he never asks permission and growing up.
I saw permission being asked all the time to spend time away. Like, even now my mom, like, I have to drag her out of the house to go on vacations without my dad. Uh, and it's like, it, it's one of those things where I think if more women did, like, travel by themselves or did activities by themselves and weren't looking to see if it was okay, were asking for permission, they would find so much more Control over their lives, and they'd find so much more support.
Like, the support that I think would pour out from their families, from their kids, like, would surprise them. Because kids want moms to be happy. They, of course, want them to stay home, but they want them to be happy, too. It's amazing
[00:30:22] Hunter: how my kids are like, oh, go dancing, mom. You know, go have fun. You know, they just, they want me to be happy.
They, yeah. They are like, their love isn't in contradiction though.
[00:30:33] JoAnn Crohn: They'll be like, they'll be like, Oh, go be happy. And then like, I leave on a trip, No, why are you off to go? Don't leave me. Who am I going to talk to? What's going to go on? And like, they will give me like everything like that as well. But ultimately, like kids do want moms to be happy.
[00:30:56] Hunter: Stay tuned for more Mindful Mama podcast right after this break.
So is there something here to learn from? Partners, like if you have a parenting partner who has no guilt, who is not asking you permission, can you say like, you know, WWHD, what would hubby do? How would he say, how would he say like, I'm going for a walk for 20, you know, I need to get out of the house, I'm going for a walk for 20 minutes.
You would just say, I need to go for a walk, for, you know, I need to get out of the house. We're like, oh, can I? Yeah, we're like, am I allowed, Annie? You're not? Can I go out for a little bit?
[00:31:42] JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. No, it's, it's so funny. I, I don't know what we're, I, I was thinking of getting that on a bracelet. I think we were talking about it.
My husband did. Because you can totally look to see what your partner's doing in terms of these, and it really gives great guidelines, uh, because if they're doing it, of course, like, that takes away some of my guilt because I'm like, well, they do this, I'm going to do this too, and I'm going to plan this.
Like, my husband has a really, really hard work schedule, and during the month of September, he's like, can you please, like, not go on any trips in September? It's just extremely hard for me. And at first I was like, well, hmm, okay, and I was feeling a little like put a pod. And then I realized, I'm like, wait a minute, am I asking for the same support in return?
I'm not. I'm not at all. And so next week, we start a huge summit for our company. And like a month ago, I started and I'll be like, this week, I cannot make any dinner. Like I need you home 5 p. m. to make dinner. I cannot pick up kids. I cannot do anything like that. I need support like that. And he was like, has, um, put the times in his schedule to block them out so meetings can't be scheduled for him.
He, um, knows that he's in charge of dinner that whole week, which is usually my responsibility, just because he gets home later. It makes sense. And, uh, he is supporting me in that way. And I think that's how it should be in a partnership. Like, your partner should support you as much as you support them.
[00:33:13] Hunter: Okay, so I'm thinking that, we're thinking breaking this into steps, like step one, realize that your guilt is keeping you down. It's being a bad example for your kids. It's leading to overwhelm. It's not serving you. It's a little poison that you are, that is keeping you from your day from historical sources.
[00:33:37] JoAnn Crohn: It is. It's not your fault. You have it, uh, but it's worth noticing so that you can start to counter it and go against it.
[00:33:45] Hunter: Okay, so then step two, we need to then take some time for ourselves, prioritize some self care. I guess, is it, would you say the first step is say, like, well, what would serve you? What would feel good?
What would make you, you know, is it, I'm going to go find my Scottish country dance class in my area. Is it, I'm going to yoga, I'm going for walks, I want time for meditation, I want to see time, time with friends, I'm going on a trip. What, is that what we're doing next? Is like identifying what it is we need and want?
Yeah, and I think
[00:34:20] JoAnn Crohn: in terms of identifying it, a really great thing to figure out exactly what you want, because that's something too, like we have spent so much time on raising our kids that a lot of us have lost touch of what we really want. And notice those things that you may be slightly envious of other women for doing.
Uh, those things that you're like, oh, like, must be nice, oh, good for her, if you find yourself saying that a lot, actually means that's something you want. That is something that is a craving for you that for some reason you don't think that you've had permission to go after. Uh, those are the things to start prioritizing.
So, say like someone hears you like go, going dancing, Hunter, and like they're like, Oh, gosh, I wish I could go dancing. You can go dancing. It's like, there are places that you could go in your town. There are resources available to you. Where, like, you can make this happen. My sister in law actually found an improv troupe.
She is performing actually in her first showcase that I'm going to tonight with an improv troupe. Yeah, and she's never done it before. She was staying at home for a while with her kids. She's a former teacher. And she just found this activity. She's like, I think this will be fun. I'm going to go try it.
And she ended up loving it. and found this next passion. So I would say like a lot of times self care is like, Oh, you should go get a massage or you should go get a pedicure or manicure. And that's not really self care. That's like, that's hygiene. That's looking nice for other people. Sometimes, you know, you feel good yourself.
I mean, I love a good manicure as you can see, but, uh, it's, it's not soul fulfilling and it doesn't go after those things that you really, really want in your life. So Just identify it, identify what you may be wanting and find that one little step that you can take towards that, just to try it out.
[00:36:20] Hunter: So what about then if we take that step and the guilt is plaguing us as we're going to take those steps, how can people deal with that as they're trying to break free of it?
So I love this
[00:36:33] JoAnn Crohn: question because I think that we feel if we don't feel any guilt, then it's the right thing to do. Um, And that guilt, it never goes away. We just learn how to deal with it better. So if you're feeling that guilt and that like, Anguish. Like, I can tell you this. It happened to me. I went on my first big girl's trip a few years ago.
We went to Italy on a cruise. Just women. No families. Wow. It was amazing. It was amazing, but it was something I have never ever done before. My friend is a travel agent, so she does this all the time. So I was kind of using her lead. And, uh, going along, but in the middle of that trip, it hit me like this wave of guilt where I just felt so bad for having fun, where my kids were at home calling me, saying they missed me, uh, and what helped me through that was just talking with my friends and letting those emotions out and venting with them.
And a lot of times when you're able to talk through your guilt with other people and other people say, yeah, I feel that too, I see that too, like it takes the edge off of it so that it's easier to deal with. So if you're feeling that guilt, let it out with some of your other friends who are trying similar things and going through similar situations.
Don't. Talk about it with people who are not letting themselves go have fun, though, because they are not going to make you feel better.
[00:38:05] Hunter: Oh, oh, good tip, good tip. Yeah, don't, yeah, don't maybe talk about it if the, if the hubby isn't supportive or the, the martyrs in your life. Don't talk about it with the martyrs.
Yeah, don't
[00:38:18] JoAnn Crohn: talk about it with the martyrs, they're not going to understand, they're going to be like, oh, well, I never had those experiences and, you know, maybe you should be home with your kids. And they are sad that they're not going along. And this reminds you of all the things that are going through your head anyways, and you don't need reminded of that.
You need that support and that love and that, like, commiseration with people who are trying these things that are uncomfortable, but being uncomfortable is the only way to
[00:38:44] Hunter: grow to actually get out of this. You know, actually, I recently went on a trip to, I went on a trip to a beautiful tropical location with some friends of mine.
We're planning a retreat for, for moms and we went on a retreat to plan our retreat. It was great. It was like four days. It was great. And I find that I'm just come back and I'm like, Oh, love the chance to miss you. I feel so refreshed. I feel myself. I feel ease in my heart and my soul. I've had some sun, so I don't feel like.
Crazy Cuckoo. I, I, just the idea of like, I like being able to come, have time away, come back and, and miss everybody and appreciate them in this whole other way. I, I don't know. I, I think I'm more relaxed parent when I come back. Oh, for sure.
[00:39:43] JoAnn Crohn: Like, I find the same thing with myself as well, where You know, you go away on a trip by yourself and it's almost like you discover who you are again.
You get this feeling back, it's like, oh right, this is how it feels. Not to be worried about everyone else's happiness around me, not to like constantly monitor the mood in the room. Not to, Be thinking, where are we going to get our next meal? Or like, how are we going to get food before the kids start being cranky and making this a miserable experience?
Like, just having that off of you, it's so surprising what starts coming out again. Like, I feel like I'm in college again after a few days on a trip. It's that refreshing.
[00:40:26] Hunter: Yeah, it takes time to decompress, but then it's like the freedom and the ease that you have some from being away from those responsibilities can be huge.
And I think it is hugely valuable for a parenting partner, if you are a primary parent, to be a primary parent for a little while and appreciate what the heck is going on all day, you know, for, for you. I mean, but these are big things. that we're talking about. We want to start with, I imagine, the little things.
What would you say are some kind of like, some daily sort of non negotiables for self care that maybe you encourage moms to embrace? The, the
[00:41:04] JoAnn Crohn: big thing is, is to just be aware of how you're feeling. And so I really recommend daily journaling. about Situations that you've had throughout the day. For instance, like, this may sound totally unrelated, but it's when you lose your temper with your kids or when you feel really mad about a situation or maybe when you like break down crying to go back to people.
back, like later that night, and journal through that experience. And I like to use self compassion, like the Dr. Kristen Neff self compassion model when I'm journaling, because it helps me break down exactly what my feelings were at that time. So, say like I was, I was okay and then all of a sudden something happened, like maybe my kid spilled something on the floor and I felt anger.
Well, usually those anger moments and that emotion is caused by a thought I just had in my head, typically like something I did wrong. So, when I journal and I use self compassion, I can go back and be like, you know what, you were really hurting during that time. You were having these thoughts that I'm a bad mom and I can't do this.
And just know, and like the second thing of self compassion is common humanity, so just know that everyone else is feeling this way as well. You are not the only mom feeling this way, um, and you had a really stressful day going up to this, so this was, this reaction was totally expected and reasonable.
And then to give yourself that comfort and to be like, you are working extremely hard, what can you do that comforts you? And sometimes for me, it's like, Snuggling up in a blanket or like telling everybody I'm going to bed to read and having, making sure that my husband knows that, you know, the kids are his for the night.
No one bother me. And giving myself that comfort. And so this daily habit of really reflecting on your emotions and what causes them and giving yourself self compassion, that is going to really give you the courage for the next To start taking care of yourself more, because right now I'm willing to bet that a lot of that guilt that you have is being caused by the things you're saying to yourself.
And those things you're saying to yourself, you need to first notice you're saying it through the journaling, and then change that situation, change what you're saying, also through the journaling because you're giving yourself self compassion. When self compassion becomes a habit, that's when you start taking the bigger steps, like going on girls trips and getting out of the house.
[00:43:40] Hunter: Yeah. Yeah. Joining us. Yeah. I love that. I love that. All right. This is so important. And this is so good to talk about. Let's support each other in getting rid of the guilt. Let's support each other in remembering that you are allowed to relax and have ease and all those things. You're going to be a better parent for her, but that is not necessarily why you should do it.
You should just do it because you are worthy of it yourself. Yes.
[00:44:09] JoAnn Crohn: Indeed. Like, it's so funny because a lot of, a lot of women, if we tell them that they are worthy of things. They, they don't believe it because it's been so long that like, maybe if you're listening right now, so long that you've been saying this to yourself, that if someone tells you you're worthy, you're like, but I'm not, you don't know me.
You don't know all the mistakes I made. You don't know all the things I've done. Um, and just know that you're not alone if you're thinking that. So many other moms think that as well, uh, but we're, we're here to tell you, you are worthy. Uh, it's just going to take some work to get you to believe that as well.
[00:44:45] Hunter: So, I appreciate you coming on to talk to us, Joann, I appreciate it so much. Of course, listeners can find you at the No Guilt Mom, a fellow at a list podcast network podcast. And then where else can they find you if they want to continue this conversation? They can go to NoGuiltMom.
[00:45:08] JoAnn Crohn: com and right on there, I have a stop doing checklist that you can download because, you know, you, you don't need any more things to do in your day.
You actually need to stop doing some things and these are the things that you can take off your list. So get that and then go listen to us over at the No Guilt Mom podcast as well. Uh, we have episodes every Tuesday and Thursday.
[00:45:30] Hunter: Any final thoughts as we wrap up our conversation about the insidious mom guilt poison?
[00:45:38] JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, I, I truly believe that guilt is the thing that is holding us women back from making huge change in society. And like with everything happening in the world today, the world needs our voices. The world needs us to be confident. And once we get rid of the guilt, we're going to find so much strength to then make change And raise the next generation to make even bigger change.
So this journey of getting rid of guilt is. So important.
[00:46:11] Hunter: Yay. Yay. I love that. Yes. And yeah. And let us, let us show our kids, like, let's live what we want them to learn. Yes. That our lives end after children. No! No, I make it even better. Even better. Even better. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you so much, Joann. It was lovely to talk to you.
I really appreciate you spending the time with us today. Thank you for having me.
I love how Joann says, uh, the best mom is a happy mom, and I totally agree with that. I hope this If this episode has helped you, if it has, please share it with one friend. Do you have a mom friend who is like, feeling the guilt? Then share it with that friend. That is a good person to say, listen, let go of this guilt.
It's good for you to be happy. You're going to be a better parent if you're going to be happy. Yes, we got to like spread the word on that. Um, and yeah, thank you so much for listening. And being part of this movement, being part of the mindful parenting revolution and movement to make things better for parents and kids.
I'm wishing you a great week. I'm wishing you ease. I hope you relax and take naps and get good night's sleep and read romance novels and listen to the podcasts you want to listen to and eat yummy foods that you like and do and have fun with your kids and tickle them and Make them giggle and all of those, enjoy nature, all the good things in life.
Um, wishing all that for you and more. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being part of this. I really appreciate it. Take care, my friend, and I'll talk to you again next week. Namaste.
[00:48:08] Mindful Parenting Member: I'd say definitely do it. It's really helpful. It will change your relationship with your kids for the better. It will help you communicate better. And just, I'd say communicate better as a person. As a wife, as a spouse. It's been really a positive influence in our lives. So, definitely do it. I'd say definitely do it.
It's so worth it. The money really is inconsequential when you get so much benefit from being a better parent to your children and feeling like you're connecting more with them. Not feeling like you're yelling all the time or you're like, why isn't this working? I would say definitely do it. It's so, so worth it.
It'll change you. No matter what age someone's child is, it's a great opportunity for personal growth and it's a great investment in someone's family. I'm very thankful I have this. You can continue in your old habits that aren't working or you can learn some new tools and gain some perspective to shift everything in your parenting.
[00:49:12] Hunter: Are you frustrated by parenting? Do you listen to the experts and try all the tips and strategies but you're just not seeing the results that you want? Or are you lost as to where to start? Does it all seem so overwhelming with too much to learn? Are you yearning for community people who get it, who also don't want to threaten and punish to create cooperation?
Hi, I'm Hunter Clark Fields. And if you answered yes to any of these questions, I want you to seriously consider the Mindful Parenting membership. You will be joining hundreds of members who have discovered the path of mindful parenting and now have confidence and clarity in their parenting. This isn't just another parenting class.
This is an opportunity to really discover your unique, lasting relationship, not only with your children, but with yourself. It will translate into lasting, connected relationships, not only with your children, but your partner too. Let me change your life. Go to mindfulparentingcourse. com to add your name to the waitlist so you will be the first to be notified when I open the membership for enrollment.
I look forward to seeing you on the inside. MindfulParentingCourse.
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