Allyson Bates is an occupational therapist that specializes in maternal wellness, pediatric development, and feeding therapy, using nature-based play and mindfulness to nurture healthy, connected families.
Krystal Pong is a mindful parenting and wellness coach helping busy parents enjoy the journey and build sustainable healthy habits for a happier, healthier family life.
565: What Parenting Challenges Teach Us
Dr. Krystal Pong and Dr. Allyson Bates
Dr. Allyson Bates and Dr. Krystal Pong explore the messy realities of parenting with honesty and hope. Discover mindfulness practices you can use daily, why gratitude matters, and how even the hardest parenting moments can become stepping stones for deeper connection.
Ep 565- Pong & Bates
Read the Transcript 🡮
*This is an auto-generated transcript*
Hunter (00:04)
You're listening to the Mindful Mama Podcast episode #565. Holy schmoly! We are talking today about what parenting challenges teach us with Dr. Krystal Pong and Dr. Allyson Bates.
Welcome to the Mindful Mama Podcast. Here it's about becoming a less irritable, more joyful parent. At Mindful Mama, we know that you cannot give what you do not have. And when you have calm and peace within, then you can give it to your children. I'm your host, Hunter Clarke-Fields. I help smart, thoughtful parents stay calm so they can have strong, connected relationships with their children. I've been practicing mindfulness for over 25 years. I'm the creator of the Mindful Parenting Course and Teacher Training. I'm the author of the international bestseller, “Raising Good Humans”, “Raising Good Humans Every Day”, and the “Raising Good Humans Guided Journal”.
Welcome back to the Mindful Mama Podcast. I am so glad you're here for this very cool episode because I'm not in it. I am passing the mic to Dr. Krystal Pong and Dr. Allyson Bates Krystal is a mindful parenting and wellness coach helping busy parents enjoy the journey and build sustainable healthy habits for a happier, healthier family life. And Allyson is an occupational therapist that specializes in maternal wellness, pediatric development, and feeding therapy using nature-based play and mindfulness to nurture healthy connected families. They are so cool. I met them through the Mindful Parenting Teacher Training program. They're amazing and they take over the podcast. And this is their episode: it's what parenting challenges can teach us all about growth. And we're gonna talk about, do these tools work? Do these actually work when life feels really overwhelming and you're gonna hear some stories about, well, yes, but also you're gonna hear some personal stories about when they make mistakes and are human with their kids. So it's really great, great episode. Join me at the table with Dr. Allyson Bates and Dr. Krystal Pong.
Dr. Allyson Bates:
Okay, hello, dear Mindful Mama listeners. We are so excited to be here with you today. We're co-hosting this conversation that's really personal and important to both of us. And we're just going to be sharing our own personal stories and lessons about how to bounce back when parenting doesn't go as planned. And let's be honest, that's pretty often, even when you teach mindfulness. So we're going to kick things off with telling you a little bit about ourselves and what brought us each to mindful parenting coaching. So I'm Dr. Allyson Bates. I'm a pediatric and maternal health occupational therapist and a mom to a two-year-old. And I actually came to mindfulness out of necessity. After my son was born, I was really struggling with postpartum anxiety, even with all of my training and experience working with children as an occupational therapist, I still felt totally overwhelmed by parenthood. And, you know, no one really prepares you for matressence, you know, that huge transition you go through when you become a mom, that big identity shift. And it's not just about, you know, bringing a child into your life. It's about, you know, relearning who you are in the process. And for me, mindfulness became a lifeline.
And it helped me slow down and stay grounded and reconnect with myself during a time where I really felt like I was losing my footing. So this experience has reshaped not just my personal life, but how I work with families as well. And now I focus on supporting moms and children and bringing more common connection into their everyday lives. And Krystal, I'd love to, would you like to introduce yourself?
Dr. Krystal Pong:
Thanks, Alison. Yeah, thank you. I'm Dr. Krystal Pong and I'm a mom of two children. I have a seven and a half year old daughter and a five year old son. And I am passionately committed to helping moms live their happiest and healthiest lives. As a pharmacist, my most recent role was in starting a lifestyle medicine clinic where we used lifestyle as medicine to help combat and even reverse diseases like diabetes, heart disease, obesity, and high cholesterol. And there I helped people implement healthier habits and mindsets, healthier habits and healthier mindsets through nutrition, exercise, quality sleep, and stress management. And with that, they didn't just become healthier, they also started having more energy, being more calm, being more happy, being more patient, all these things that are so advantageous to have as parents, right? And during that time, I felt such a strong calling to help these stressed out, overwhelmed, tired moms who just desperately wanted to be happy and healthy so that they could have the energy to play with their kids or have the energy to want to play with their kids. And they started thinking about the future. They wanted to be there with their kids in the future. They wanted to be there with them, enjoying life, and be there for them to support them in the later years too. So when I stopped working in that clinic, I was doing a lot of positive parenting workshops for the community. And one of the moms that I talked to said, how are these positive parenting strategies working for you? And she said, “I love the strategies, but I find myself just yelling before I even know what happened. I think I need a mindful parenting workshop”. And at the time I was like, “man, these positive parenting strategies really, really changed things for me”. But then when I stopped working in the clinic and I became a full-time stay at home mom, I noticed myself. snapping more and getting more frustrated with the kids, yelling more than I wanted to. And I knew this is not how I wanted to show up for my kids. This is not, these are not the memories I wanted to create with them. I turned to mindful parenting and in my mindful parenting journey, I wanted to study it, embrace it, live it, and then teach it. And it's really helped me to notice my emotions as they arise and reflect without judgment. And most importantly, it's helped me exercise self-compassion. So these are the skills that have changed parenting for me. I've always deeply loved being a mom, but I can say with confidence, it's so much more enjoyable now. And when it's not, as Olson said, like we have these moments that are not fun, I bounce back so much faster and so much easier than I did before. So I want to provide moms with the tools and knowledge to support their healthiest and happiest life for themselves and their families.
And as important as healthy eating, sleeping, and exercise really is a healthy mindset and stress management. And that comes, that can come through mindfulness and mindful parenting. So Allyson and I have both been on these different but meaningful mindful parenting journeys. And I know we want to share some of our kind of ups and downs along the way. So Allyson, do you want to kick us off with some challenges that you've had through your mindful parenting journey?
Dr. Allyson Bates:
Yeah. You know, I think another thing that's actually pretty similar between Krystal and I is we are both healthcare professionals, actually. You know, we're moms, we're healthcare professionals that are helping other people. And we were doing that before we turned to mindful parenting. And I think one thing that was the shift for me, I believe, you know, Krystal transitioned to being at home as well too during, and I also transitioned to being home and we both came from this clinic setting.
And I had a really hard time when I transitioned from being in a clinic to parenting, to being in this same mindset where I was an achiever and really wanted to do my job well. I found that that was a big challenge for me when I started doing mindful parenting is I was treating it the same way I was treating my job where I wanted to be a really great parent. was striving to be amazing at parenting and I come from a history of perfectionism. So I found that I was using all these tools. I was meditating, I was simplifying my life and doing all the things that was mindful and then I would still get frustrated and have overreactions and go into these big emotional states and then be mad at myself and think, doing all these things, what's going on? And I think it really took coming to a place of radical acceptance and a mindset shift that mindful parenting is not about being perfect. It is about learning and stumbling and you know just showing up with compassion for yourself over and over and over again. So yeah that was a big a big challenge for me to get to that that different place and it took you know going through a part of that mindful parenting journey.
Dr. Krystal Pong:
Absolutely. remember being so frustrated when I started. I learned all these tools. I felt like I had them under my belt and then I would still get mad in the beginning of my journey. I was like, my gosh, I'm supposed to be like totally Zen now. I meditate now and I do all the things. why am I still feeling mad? Why am I still losing it? This doesn't make any sense. And I remember in the beginning of the journey too, just, there's just this awful shame and this awful negative self-talk that I would just punish myself with when things went sideways, right? And now having more acceptance, knowing that things will go sideways sometimes and that that's okay. But at the time, I remember just feeling so, so upset with myself and saying things to myself like that were just so mean things, like, “my gosh, I can't believe I yelled at them again. What is wrong with me? I promised I wouldn't yell anymore. Good moms don't yell. What am I doing here?” I want to be the best mom ever- best moms ever don't yell, you know? And like, I love my kids so much. They're so sweet. They're so little. They deserve better. How could I do this to them? And it's just down, down, down this negative shame spiral we go with self, with this like harsh self-criticism. And it's so hard to bounce back from that, right? It's just so hard to bounce backward in this like puddle of shame and, and just like self, self-hatred almost just like being so mean to yourself. And now bouncing back, am very happy to say it looks very different for me now since we've been on this mindful parenting journey. but Alison, I'd love to hear for you, like an example, maybe when you lost it and what bouncing back looks like for you.
My son right now is against my will, dropping his nap most days of the week. So this has been a rough period for me, you know, in a few different ways. So I co-sleep with my son and I still breastfeed him before falling to sleep. So before sleep, you know, we're in this nice dark room and the sound machines on and I've just breastfed so I have all this great melatonin. So I'm usually, you know, in this place of calm and ease. I'm ready to maybe go to sleep. I'm about to get a break. I'm so excited. And then my son doesn't fall asleep, so I get frustrated and it's, you know, it's happening often, right? So I'm getting frustrated over and over and over again. and then recently I had this scenario where my son was falling asleep and then he started not, he decided to not fall asleep and was flailing all over the place and jumping. And then he jumped right on my face and just slammed into me and I had a full adult temper tantrum.
And I shoved him off of me. I screamed “stop!”. And then I like full on stormed out of the room to sit in a chair outside the room. You know, he's crying and asking for me to come back and yeah. So obviously it was a very big reaction. It was, there was many other times where I didn't have this big reaction, but it did finally come and I was lucky in this scenario, my husband works remotely and this happened to be during his lunch break. he came up and was able to soothe my son while I was able to have my period of calm down. But even if my husband wasn't there, my son would have just been in the room and I would have still needed that time to calm down. But I was lucky in that sometimes just hearing your son in the room crying is, you know, it's harder to come back into your parasympathetic system because you're just hearing the ongoing. But yeah, I was able to get into my parasympathetic nervous system. I was, you know, tapping in my senses. So I was, you know, feeling my body in the chair, putting my feet on the ground, you know, noticing the light coming in through the window. And then also I like to, you know, squeeze my arms, squeeze my legs, get some little proprioceptive calming input. And then I like to do an inhale and then with a longer exhale. And I usually do a hum with it just to add on some calming music, like calming sound. And also that vibration can stimulate your vagus nerve, which helps calm your body. So I got to go do all those things while sitting outside and then I went in and had a repair of my son. And I apologized to him. I told him I was feeling tired and hurt. And sometimes when we're tired and hurt, we have big reactions and big emotions. And I just needed some time for my body to come down to be with him. And that's OK. And I'm in my mid thirties. I'm a millennial and I think it's pretty common in our generation where, you know, big emotions were not okay. And, you know, I had initial feelings when I'm stormed out of shame.
Dr. Allyson Bates:
Absolutely. And, you know, when I had that repair with my son where I was telling him, you know, sometimes when you get hurt or you have something going on, like you're going to have big reactions. I think that that was a moment of reparenting for me as well too, where I was repairing with myself too and having some self-compassion for myself, even though I was saying it out loud to my son, I was saying it to myself too, you know, that those big emotions were okay. And, you know, I'm human. And that really what comes after is most important, you know, that I'm modeling to my son that it's okay to have emotions and that how you calm yourself after and how you make changes after is what really matters in the end. So yeah, that's in fact for me is really all about that treating myself with compassion and reflecting over some of the factors that led to that moment and then later on taking some actual steps in areas that I do have control over.
Hunter (17:25)
Stay tuned for more Mindful Mama podcasts right after this break.
Dr. Allyson Bates:
Yeah, so I'd love, you know, I think we'll talk more about examples in this conversation, but I'd love to hear what bouncing back is for you,
Dr. Krystal Pong:
Yeah, definitely. Now I approach these hard situations with a lot more curiosity than judgment. So as you mentioned, kind of the self-reflection piece for me, when I take a step back, I look at the situation, I say, whoa, what happened there? I lost control. What happened? Like you said, what led up to it? What were some factors that could have contributed to it?
Dr. Allyson Bates:
So for me, like a key takeaway I wanted our listeners to have was this importance of self-reflection. What happened and what did I do well in that situation? know, they always, pretty much always could have gone worse, right? Most of the time, think. So what did you do well in this situation? But if it happened again, which, you know, as parents, of our, one of the, I guess the blessing and the curse, right? We have so many opportunities when we, when things let go sideways to practice again, you'll have another opportunity next time. Don't worry, it'll, you know, we'll have another opportunity. So I use the times that I blow up or something happens to see what kind of key insights I can have into the situation so I can do better next time. So it's not about letting myself off the hook and saying, it's not a big deal that I blew up. Instead, it's thinking about it as how can I what can I learn from this? How can I do better next time? And I meet myself with self-compassion. So what I learned is when we beat ourselves up, this negative self-talk causes you to feel attacked, but you're also the attacker, right? So you're being attacked and you're the attacker, which leads to a stress response. And we know that you can't think clearly when you're stressed, you can't have rational thoughts, you can't learn when you're under stress, it's very difficult.
So when you're attacking yourself and being attacked by yourself, then you're in this like incredible stress response. You tense up, your heart goes faster, and this stress just kind of wreaks havoc on your body. So with self-compassion, I meet myself with self-kindness and I say like, wow, that was a really tough situation. What happened there? Because in the end, like what do I want to teach my kids, right? Do I want to teach them, if you make a mistake, beat yourself up relentlessly until you feel really, really, really bad about it. So hopefully you don't do it again. And then if you do do it again, you know, double down on how bad you are, right? Or do I want to teach them and model for them, hey, when you do something wrong, that's okay. You're okay. You're not a bad person because you did something bad, right? You're not a failure because you failed at something or you made a mistake. I want to teach them that when there's a mistake, we can learn from it. We can do better next time. to treat ourselves with kindness through the process. So to summarize, I look at the situation with curiosity instead of judgment. And then when I have some space to reflect on it, I think about what I could have done better. So I'll give you an example:
Recently, we had a very close family member pass away. It was very, very, very difficult for us and our family and our community. He was really special. And I had the honor of helping put together the program and do simple things like proofread like three paragraphs. And so was like, yeah, I could do that while the kids are like playing like here, kids occupy yourselves playing, no big deal, mom's gonna read these three paragraphs. Well, I couldn't, I tried to read it and they would scream or they'd ask for something or, I a snack or whatnot. And I just, I just lost it. Like because they asked for a snack, I started screaming like a crazy person. And I haven't done this in like a very, very long time, I'm happy to say, but I just completely lost it. And at the time, I think in that moment, I was screaming so much, I couldn't even, like, it's like, kind of, you just go blank, right? You can't even like process, like, why am I so upset? What's going on? Like I'd, I pretty much, it had gone, it had gone very poorly. And so in reflecting, I was like, Whoa, Krystal, you were so tired. You're grieving, not just for this family member's death, but, for my own father's death, he passed away five years ago, but this person kind of filled that role of my father when he passed away. And then losing him was like just kind of this double whammy. was a very, it impacted me more than I think I realized at the time. And just being patient with myself and understanding how hard this was for me and what kind of mounted up to losing it. Of course, I repaired with my children.
And I think, you know, I'm so grateful that we had these lessons in learning and self-compassion before this happened because afterward it's like, I'm already so fragile, right? Like I've lost someone I love, I'm reflecting on other people I've lost. I'm tired, I'm grieving. I'm just like, I'm just so, so fragile in this moment. If I had layered on, how could you do this to your kids? You just lost someone that you love. Like think about how fragile life is. Like life is so short. How could you spend it yelling at your children? You know, like if I had gone down this like negative self-talk spiral on top of everything else, it just would have been such a disaster. you know, of course I would love to have done it differently, but learning just kind of why I reacted in that way and giving myself a little bit more space and time to grieve and heal and not taking on too much, I think was a big learning point for me. I'll say that I was able to look at the situation with curiosity and reflect, what could I have done better? What happened there? How can we set myself up for success next time? Was so helpful to me.
Dr. Krystal Pong:
I'm so grateful that it wasn't the negative shame spiral instead, because I don't know if I could bounce back from that. But it was hard. And even talking about it, feel like, oh, know, like choked up and like, shake it out, right? Like, whoo, that's a lot. But for me, in being kind to myself, part of it was I talked to a close friend about this, you know, what would I tell them if they came to me with this situation and Hunter calls it a friend check, right? Like, what would you say to a close friend? Like, are these words that you're saying to yourself, something you would feel comfortable saying to a friend or even your worst enemy. And when we're not being kind to ourselves, like, no, you would never say that to a close friend or your worst enemy. Like those are not appropriate or kind things to say. But to ourselves, sometimes we get in this habit without even realizing this habit of saying mean things to ourselves. the self-kindness, the self-compassion. But I know, I remember for you, Allyson, you mentioned that, you know, this like friend check wasn't really the ticket for you. And I know a lot of people might be not as kind to themselves as they want to. Maybe there's a lot of shame and judgment and self-compassion could be really helpful. Do you remember like things that helped you be more self-compassionate to yourself? Anything that made it easier to practice?
Dr. Allyson Bates:
Yeah, well, going back to that friend thing, think, you know, I viewed talking to myself as a friend and self-compassion very similarly, and that really I didn't believe in them. I thought, well, if I'm treating myself as a friend, I'm just being too nice to myself. you know, sometimes when I talk to a friend, I'm not trying to help them grow, I'm just trying to be nice so that they feel better in that moment. And I felt that way about self-compassion too. thought, if I treat myself well, that means I'm allowing myself to continue to do this act and not grow from it. So it was difficult for me to get on that self-compassion train in the beginning. But it turns out, and it really took me knowing this, again, I'm a healthcare professional, so as soon as somebody tells me something research-based, believe it. So anyway, know, research shows that it's not true at all. Self-compassion actually leads to greater motivation for positive change. And I don't know if I heard it at the right time, but it really sunk into me that, know, exactly what you're saying, like, you know, what would it have been like to have, you know, further put yourself through suffering by criticizing yourself during a difficult time. Nothing positive can come from that. But I really just felt I wasn't gonna change or grow if I treated myself well. But again, that has not been the case since I've been practicing self-compassion.
And yeah, when I first started practicing self-compassion, in the beginning it was a little forced for me, because again, it took a while for me to get on board. you know, I think I underlying didn't believe what I was telling myself in my self-compassion mantras or breaks. And, you know, I think that that's okay in the beginning when you're learning a new skill for something to maybe not feel that authentic at first. But I think it also took, again, me genuinely believing that, you know, it's okay that I did something that wasn't how I wanted it to go. And that really the best thing I can still do for myself is treat myself well. And then, you know, having big reactions and big emotions tell you something. They should be enlightening to tell you ways that you can't, you know, maybe there's something going on in your life. you know, you had a big life event happen. So maybe you had to find other ways that could support you in grieving and coping in that time. And that's what your focus needed to be on. So I think it's a tool to learn as well. And when you're in a self-criticizing mode, you're often just stuck in that event rather than moving forward onto the next how to solve and make your life more congruent to what you need at that time.
So yeah, a lot of it for me was really a mindset shift and then also accepting that I'm human and that I have a threshold. And there's a lot of different analogies for thresholds, but just a really simple one that I always think of is, you know, when you have a bucket and at some point it can get too full and spill over. And, you know, there's a lot of different things that fill up this bucket and alot of different factors at play and some I might have control over and some I don't.
So for example, you know, I also had a big life event where my family is currently displaced because we have a mold issue in our home. So we just, in under a month packed up all of our belongings and got out of this house and moved out of the state we were in and are, you know, we're staying with my family at the moment and we don't even know where we're going next. So there's lots of uncertainties and a lot of things coming up. So really this bucket for me is a little, it's fuller than usual and there really isn't that much room left for other things like work stressors or lack of sleep or sensory overstimulation before that bucket gets too full and spills over. So it really took for me, like again, believing that there's a justification for what's going on in my life right now. And I genuinely believe that it's okay to have, you know, reached this limit because limits exist. And again, I'm human. So yeah, when I blew up with my son, I was able to then say to myself, “you know, this is hard, I'm exhausted, I'm hurt”. And you know, I have a lot going on in my life right now. And I just wanted this moment of rest and I didn't get it. And you know, then there's that, you know, all parents hit their limits, that threshold, right? We all have one, it can look different on different days. But again, then I can say, “you did the best you could in this moment. And you're not perfect and just treat yourself gently and not with shame.
So yeah, again, coming back to it, it's another thing for the shame component. As I said, like when you were in that shame cycle and you're just focusing on the bad event you did over and over again and not the change that comes after it, you know, thankfully the self-compassion led to the motivation for change. I, you know, later that night I had a conversation with my husband and I was like, “look, I lost it and I've been frustrated over and over and over again”. It took many, many times for me to finally make the change and it really took that huge reaction for me to sit down and talk to my husband and be like, what can I do when he doesn't nap? That's gonna help me not lose it every time because I'm tired. And so we decided there was two different things I did after that. basically made the decision that if my son didn't sleep, then the first thing I was gonna do was go outside and be in nature. I was gonna use the healing effects of being in nature and then also get inside my body by going on a walk to kind of get out of that part of my brain that's freaking out. And another thing too is again, life routine changes you can make. We did make the decision that ifmy son woke up after eight o'clock, I wasn't even gonna attempt a nap that day. And I was just gonna go and live our life without that nap. And that just completely got rid of the tension that builds up in that moment because I just have a different plan for that day. So it really took having that big emotional reaction and self-compassion to move forward to this point of, what is filling up this bucket? What can I get out of there? What do I need to make changes on? So such a, a gift to myself to move out of that state and focus on treating myself well and what I can do to continue to feel better. Have you found anything to make it easier?
Dr. Krystal Pong:
Yeah, you know, in your story though, Allyson, I think the beautiful part about it that I'm hearing is just like very strategic problem solving of like, hey, that happened. I didn't like that that happened. How can we change the situation for next time? Because there will be a next time probably in some flavor, right? And so like the problem solving you guys came up with was spectacular. And I want to highlight because I could see myself listening to this a few years ago before I embraced self-compassion, before I embraced mindful parenting, and being like, are these people trying to tell me like blowing up at your kid is okay? Because it's not like, come on, do better, you know, or something like that. Not to, you know, highlight my judgmental mentality before, but like, you know, I could see people thinking like, blowing up is not okay. And you're right, it's not okay. And treating ourselves with compassion and kindness is a tool to use, not again, not to let us off the hook to say, it's okay that you blew up, no biggie, right? The piece of it is being kind to yourself and meeting yourself with self-compassion so you can have a clearer mind to do better, so that you can be less stress and more motivated to do better.
You and I probably thought like, no, we gotta be hard on ourselves so that we do better. And I think a lot of people think that, but the truth is, like I said, when you're hard on yourself, when you're attacking yourself and being attacked, you're in a stressed state and it's releasing these stress hormones and it's gonna make it harder for us to think of these creative solutions, to be motivated to proceed, right? When we're stressed, we're not our best selves, but when we're kind to ourselves, it can open our hearts to be better and our creative juices will be flowing and just everything is better, I think, when we're kind to ourselves. But I just wanted to throw that out there, because I think I probably did listen to things like this and they're like, no, blowing up- that's not okay, do better, you know? And it's just such a different perspective. I still don't think it's okay. And I meet myself with self-compassion so I can do better.
Dr. Allyson Bates:
Yeah, I at least have the perspective too though that maybe, you know, it's not okay to blow up your children, but unfortunately, it is inevitable because we are human beings and have emotions. So I think, you know, it is okay to a certain degree. I think it's okay in that, you know, we can have big emotions and we are human beings that have so many things piling up on us and we can control a lot of things. So I think that that's what we look back on. like, we have, I could have slept more last night instead of looking at my phone. I could have done this. And then you go down to Sham's Bar with all the things that you could have controlled that maybe you didn't do that led to this. And I get that, but I think the other perspective too is afterwards we're modeling something to our children and children are gonna have big emotions all the time, developmentally. They don't have a mature brain. And even when you do have a mature brain, the adults, we're gonna get into that part of our brain that's gonna lose it. So I think it's important to model what happens after big emotions. And if you don't have emotions and you're repressing them in some way as well too, I think that also can have some negative effects in that you're- again, you're not modeling your children what you do after big emotions happen and that you again can make mistakes and do all of these things. So yeah, have, again, it's a lot of mind shift, you know, just feeling okay with what's happened and what you've done and that there's positive that's gonna come out of this experience.
Dr. Krystal Pong:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, that's a great perspective too, Alison. Thank you.
Hunter (39:51)
Stay tuned for more Mindful Mama podcasts right after this break.
Dr. Krystal Pong:
Allyson, how have you brought mindfulness into your day?
Dr. Allyson Bates:
So yeah, for me, I have had a hard time staying consistent with formal meditation. I have had wonderful periods where I have been meditating all the time, every day. Even my parents are on that train, they meditate all the time. But I, you know, it drops off at times, you know, like now while I'm, while I was moving. And I think, you know, what is always 100 % consistent for me is, you know, those quick, easy, you know, integrated into your daily routine acts that stick around the longest. So I practice self-compassion breaks and I follow Kristin Neff's three steps. And I do this often after the difficult moments that I'm having, like I did with my son.
Dr. Krystal Pong (42:57)
But this can also be a preventative thing, just to have compassion for yourself throughout your day. It doesn't have to be after a big blow up. But yeah, again, my, Kristen, after three steps are, the first one is mindfulness, then common humanity, and then that last one is speaking to yourself with kindness. So again, when I lost it with my son, I first recognized that I was in this emotional state and I grounded by getting into my senses. So I was, you know, being mindful and aware at that time. And then I reminded myself that I'm a human being with limits and all people have limits. So that common humanity component. And then the last one was I repaired with myself, not just with my son, but with myself. And then had some actionable reflection afterwards. So that last kindness component. And then two other practices I do that again is just a part of my daily routine every day is just informal practices where I talk to my wandering mind and I tap into my senses. So it's pretty similar to what you do in formal meditation in that you're picking up when you're not on your breath or whatever you're focusing on in that moment and then coming back to the present and focusing on your breath, which is just, again, getting in tune with their body. But I do this informally, like when my son is playing, for example, I might notice that I'm ruminating on something or I'm trying to solve a problem or what I'm going to do for dinner and I'll just say, “Wandering mind or anxiety brain, I see you there. I know you're trying to help me. You're trying to help me figure out what I have to do for dinner, but I don't need you right now. Right now I'm focusing on being with my son and I'm just gonna put you in a box and put you over here for right now. And maybe I'll even if I need to like pick a time that I'm gonna come back to something so that I can really get it, not a forefront of my brain at that time”.
But yeah, this has been a practice that helps me just come back again and again to the present moment without judging myself because again, it's like condition of our minds to wander and focus on something else and get into that analytical side of our brain. So yeah, again, the next step is, tabbing into my senses. So once I've talked to my brain and it can be way shorter than that, I don't have to do that whole nice long monologue with my brain. I can just be like, Hey, I don't need you right now. I'm going to watch what my son's doing. but then yeah, I tap into my senses. So if my son's playing, I'm just gonna, again, feel my body on the ground while I'm playing with him. I'm gonna wear the toy in my hand. I'm gonna like look at my son's hands, what he's playing, his spatial expressions, maybe the light coming in. I'm gonna notice the noises that are coming up. You know, you can get into all five senses, but it doesn't even matter. It doesn't have to be that formal. It's just really what you pick up on in your senses. And again, that just gets you out of that analytical side of your brain and into your right side of your brain where you're really focusing on being present in the moment through tapping into your senses. So yeah, I just do that over and over again throughout the day whenever I am with my family and I want to be present. And you know, it's possible that because I have practiced formal meditation so many times that just becomes easier for me to integrate into my day informally like that.
So it's possible that is also why that's easy for me, but I just think, you know, a lot of people think I got to sit for 20 minutes a day and then that's gonna, you know, flow over into the rest of my day and my week and, know, but it can just be something that you incorporate into your daily life and activities. again, even like I go in the shower or do something, you just pay attention to, you know, the temperature. There's just so many different ways to incorporate it into your daily life without doing formal meditation. And it's still training your brain to get into the present moment over and over again. And it doesn't require you having to get away from your family and sit down on a cushion or anything as well too.
Dr. Allyson Bates:
Do you ever do the “5-4-3-2-1 Census”?
Dr. Krystal Pong:
Yes, I do that. I do that often. I think my only thing on that is there are some senses that are more calming or less calming for people. So sometimes in the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, especially if my son is having a tantrum, I'm like, I don't really want to tap into my sounds right now. Like I'm just going to focus on what's most calming is visually things are calming for me. So sometimes I do love “5-4-3-2-1” and that is like a formal practice to help guide people. But again, I think that's also something that you can adjust to what your body's telling you is calming for you. It can be that you just skip the the sound or the taste or whatever, and you just focus on two senses that are super coming for you, and you just tap into those as well.
For listeners who don't know, the “5-4-3-2-1”, do you want to run through it, Allyson? You want me to?
Dr Allyson Bates:
Go for it.
Dr. Krystal Pong:
You start with five- so it's five, four, three, two, one, and you start with five things you can see. So you look around for five specific things you can see and jump in, Alison, if you want to add anything. But five specific things you can see, like I see this picture, I see this tree, I see this, I see that. And then four things that you can hear. So then you listen in and focus in, like I hear this bird chirping, I hear the truck driving by, I hear this, I hear that.
And then three things that you can touch. Yeah, touch. So you can like, I feel the seat beneath me. I feel like the texture of my pants or I feel, you know, whatever you're feeling. And then two is the two things you can smell. So smell, take a deep breath and smell what you could smell and identify those things. And then the last one is taste. I feel like, yeah, you're right. I think you're right, Alison. If you’re kind of new to this, that could be a really nice one just to kind of get grounded, get back in your body. And then if that's helpful for people, then maybe, or maybe just like playing around with it to see what helps. And for me, it could be like if I'm, you know, at the park with the kids and I'm like on my phone and I'm like, wait, now I want to be present instead. let's just really quickly like get back in the moment. Or if I'm kind of seeing red, if I have a moment of clarity where I can do that. I wonder for me, I wonder if like the structure is kind of helpful to me, like just to especially if I'm like, stressed or distracted, just to like, have a structure of like, okay, I'm looking for five things. Okay, now I'm looking for four things or you know,
Dr. Allyson Bates;
I agree. Usually I teach this to beginners that are doing mindfulness and I just say, you know, this is, it's nice to have structure in the beginning because again, you're learning a new skill. and again, exactly what you said, like you're maybe not in the part of your brain you want to be in and that you're just, it's easy to follow a structure. But I think the more you practice, you know, you can just evolve it and you can again decide what is what's resonating with you, what's not, how can you adjust this practice to better meet what's calming for your nervous system and not. yeah, so that's one thing I really like too is like you can learn these practices and it's great to have these guides, but then tune into what's working for you.
Dr. Krystal Pong:
Mm hmm. Totally. And I remember one of the things in your like day to day mindfulness practice was your gratitude that you do with your family, which I have copied since we last talked about it. Do you want to talk about your?-I love your gratitude practice when you talk about that.
Dr. Allyson Bates:
Yeah, we, every night we always say three things that we are grateful for right before going to sleep, my husband, my son and I. And it's just so easy to implement because it's, you know, everybody has a bedtime routine and it's like the last thing that we do at the very end. And it just is such a positive way for us to reflect on our day and what we enjoyed and also just kind of like for my son who's still young at two, kind of like, you know, do a little story script summary of our day, you know what I mean, back to each other. So we love that practice and I'm glad that you're enjoying it too, Chris. Well, it's a great one. Yeah, think, you know, it's again, we've talked also about in general, whenever you're picking up a new, something that you want to implement into your life, it's just so great to do it in a routine that already exists. So I think that that is why that gratitude practice is so great. Like some people are like, oh, I wanna do gratitude. I'm gonna sit here and I'm gonna open up a journal and I'm gonna write it all down. But then they're like, I don't have time to do that, right? So like, let's, again, that's the same thing that happens with a lot of people with formal meditation is they're like, I gotta go sit down for 20 minutes and do that away from my kids to really focus on it. And I'm not saying that, again, those aren't great practices, but if you're in the thick of things, you have young kids, there's something going on: just think about what routines you already have that exist and ways you can just seamlessly just add in these small things, again, like gratitude practice or just, you know, again, something that's just inside your head anyway in your regular daily routine, like talking to your wandering mind or getting into your senses. Like the five, four, three, two, one, nobody has any idea that you've just done that. I mean, you just were in your own, was instead of looking at your phone, that's what you were doing.
Dr. Krystal Pong;
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah, I love that. And yeah, and talking about incorporating into existing routines, like habits stacking, it's like you already have this habit, what can you just kind of add onto a habit? One of my favorite things I learned from a book called Joy on Demand was that anytime you're waiting, let that be a cue to take a deep breath. So if you're waiting in line at the grocery store, if you're waiting for a stoplight, if you're waiting for your computer to reboot or you're waiting for your kid to come out of school in the pickup line or whatever it is you're doing, that involves waiting. Because sometimes people get frustrated or antsy when they're waiting, but to switch it to taking a deep, mindful breath in that moment or gratitude practice or whatever it is, there's so much waiting kind of baked into our day already. So why not use it for something? So spectacular, right?
Dr. Alyson Bates (54:46)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I love connecting with Krystal and the listeners. We appreciate Hunter letting us share our experiences with everybody here today. And Krystal, before we go, if people are looking for you, where can they find you?
Dr. Krystal Pong:
Yeah, thanks, Alison. And yes, thank you, Hunter, for this opportunity. We're so grateful for the opportunity. I think it came with a lot of reflection and learnings for ourselves too. But folks can find me- I'm a mindful parenting and wellness coach. I help busy parents enjoy the journey and build sustainable, healthy habits. I provide group and one-on-one coaching and I have some awesome online courses and I offer the mindful parenting course too, of course. My Instagram is @doctor.krystal. And my website is www.doctorkrystal.com. And you can get helpful guides there like the one minute mindfulness for moms and kids or the bouncing back after losing your cool toolkit. So please check it out because I would love to support you in living your happiest, healthiest life. Alison, where can folks find you? Yeah.
Dr. Allyson Bates:
Again, I'm also a mindfulness coach and I am an occupational therapist and I provide services to families. So you can find me on Instagram @eat.play.rest or you can go to my website, which is eatplayrestot.com. So yeah, thank you again, everyone. We enjoyed being here and a part of the Mindful Mama podcast today.
Hunter (56:33)
Hope you enjoyed this episode. I think this is such a great example of like, parenting is messy. And that's why mindfulness helps, right? But we're not gonna get it perfect. If you want more information about the Mindful Parenting Teacher Training, or you want some freebies or you want to check out some courses or coaching or anything that could help you on this journey,
Anyway, I hope this video would help you feel better: go to MindfulMammaMentor.com if you wanna bring me in to talk- that'd be fun, let's do that. Thank you so much for listening. I hope this helped you and I'm wishing you a week with calm and peace and some hugs and some smiles and some time to yourself. And I'll be rooting you on, wishing you all the best. Namaste.
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