Lori Petro is a parent educator and child advocate at Teach Through Love.com. She’s on a mission to transform the way parents communicate with their children.
Lori Petro
Did you know that many of the most common things we say to our kids actually makes things worse?
Today’s Mindful Mama guest will help you know what to say and what not to say to your kids to create close, connected relationships for life.
Relisten: Conscious Communication - Lori Petro (75)[492]
Read the Transcript 🡮
*This is an auto-generated transcript*
[00:00:00] Hunter: Hey there, it's Hunter, and welcome to Throwback Thursday. Most Thursdays, we are going to re release one of my favorite episodes from the archives. So unless you're a longtime listener of the show, there's a good chance you haven't heard this one yet. And even if you had, chances are that you are going to get something new listening to it this time around.
And so my.
[00:00:19] Lori Petro: Personal journey of healing really led me to realize that, oh, it's the way that we speak to each other, and not just with words, but nonverbal communication, body language, you know, like the silent stare and the eye that you get, and, you know, you hear people talk about all their parents had to do was look at them, and they knew.
[00:00:43] Hunter: You're listening to the Mindful Mama Podcast, Episode 75. Today, we're talking about conscious communication.
Welcome to the Mindful Parenting Podcast. Here it's about becoming a less irritable, more joyful parent. At Mindful Parenting, we know that you cannot give what you do not have, and when you have calm and peace within, then you can give it to your children. I'm your host, Hunter Clark Fields. I help smart, thoughtful parents stay calm so they can have strong, connected relationships with their children.
I've been practicing mindfulness for over 25 years, I'm the creator of the Mindful Parenting course, and I'm the author of the international bestseller, Raising Good Humans, and now, Raising Good Humans Every Day, 50 Simple Ways to Rest Pause, Stay Present, and Connect with Your Kids. I'm so happy to have on today Lori Petro, my friend, and she is a parent educator and child advocate at TeachThroughLove.
com. Lori's on a mission to transform the way parents communicate with their children, and I have to give you a personal intro too, Lori, because When I was struggling and I was miserable, I found these amazing YouTube videos and they completely changed the way I thought about parenting. Like I was like, I mean, I remember sending one of Lori's videos to a friend of mine's and saying, will you watch this and tell me what you think about this?
Because it completely changed my worldview so much. So thank you so much for coming on. Uh, Mindful Mama podcast today, Lori, and thank you for the work you do. I just, you're such an inspiration to me.
[00:02:23] Lori Petro: Oh, you are too sweet. Too sweet. I still remember when you came and we did a video interview when you were starting your online programs and way back when, and so I just, I'm so grateful for you as well and the calmness that you bring to us as moms because that's really needed.
So thank you for having me on. Oh my gosh. It's a, it's a hard earned calmness.
[00:02:48] Hunter: Right? So you work, like I said, with, about, with communication and you want to transform the way parent, parents communicate with their children. So why is this work, why is this work so important
[00:03:04] Lori Petro: to you? Mostly because of my experience as a kid.
I didn't have very good communication skills. I grew up in a home where there was a lot of yelling, demanding control, and my parents weren't trying to be, you know, they weren't trying to make our relationship hard. They weren't trying to make me unhappy. Right. And I wasn't trying to make their life miserable, their lives miserable, but it turned out to really feel that way for everybody.
And so I grew up feeling really disconnected and disrespected, and they felt really disrespected. And it ruined kind of our relationship. And my ability to have healthy relationships didn't ruin like that, but it did. didn't give me a good foundation. And so my personal journey of healing really led me to realize that, oh, okay, it's the way that we speak to each other and not just with words, but nonverbal communication, body language, you know, like the silent stare and the, the, the eye that you get.
And, you know, you hear people talk about all their parents had to do is look at them and they knew. And I get that that's, or, you know, was a, useful tool in the past, but I feel like we've moved beyond that and now we have, we know better and really what it does, you know, the way that we interact shapes.
the way our children's brains develop. So there couldn't be anything more important than development and relationship. Yeah. For, you know, I feel like that is, those are two key factors that all parents, they want healthy development. They want strong relationships for their kids, with their kids. So that's why I do it.
It's, it's really just about helping, Parents understand their kids and communicate limits and boundaries without making kids feel like they are bad, you know, because that's what kids feel. They're like, oh my gosh, or that they hate them. Oh my gosh, you hate me. And we're not saying I hate you, but they're little brains.
perceive, and you know when they're 14 their brains are little and they're immature and their perspectives are limited and they perceive that we don't like them or that you know we're always they're always disappointing us. They get these messages that we don't consciously mean to send but it gets all messed up in the you know in the language and the And our just traditional ways of interacting with each
[00:05:39] Hunter: other.
So you're saying that your parents, it's not like they were excessively, like, abusive or unskillful or anything like that, they were just kind of the average, you know, authoritarian parents of, you know, of your childhood? Well, yes, I mean, there's
[00:05:55] Lori Petro: a lot of culturally and, and it was influenced by our culture for sure.
And I think every culture has their different ways of communicating. So it was really loud and abusive, but I think that was just defined by very much by our culture. Whereas some Other, you know, people may be very quiet and reserved in their communication, and that's their family pattern. So if I look back, I'm not going to say it wasn't abusive, because it was, but it was also very common.
It's sort of, I feel like, hidden behind, because Yes, I wasn't going to school with bruises, I wasn't getting, getting beaten, but it wasn't here and there. It was like, you know, verbal attacks and calling me lazy and disrespectful and all, you know, calling me names. And again, it was done out of anger. My parents weren't, I know that they didn't mean that.
to, uh, be abusive. And they might even disagree with calling it that, but I'm not sugarcoating it anymore because it's not fair to kids. And it's not fair to parents because they're unnecessarily creating disconnection and, and building walls that they don't even know are there because their children are putting up walls saying, I don't want to be treated like this.
And my behavior is my way of telling you. My slamming the door is my communication. But parents just see more disrespect. So I'm trying to translate everything, so I translate for the parents what the kids are actually saying with the slamming doors. And then I want to help them be able to translate their limits and boundaries into words that actually bring their kids closer.
And kids are like, okay, I really do want to do this for you because you respect me and you're helping me and you're standing by me and you're supporting me instead of feeling judged and blamed and shamed. Again, it's unconscious, it's the little things, it's like, you know, how many times do I have to tell you?
But when a kid hears that, you know, even once a, once a day, every day, even if they hear that, you know, a few times, over time it builds up and it creates kids who are stressed out and then they're afraid to make mistakes when making mistakes is just a natural part of childhood. And the way that, you know, slamming doors is sometimes just a natural reaction.
So if we don't take that personally as parents. We're able to connect with our kids. We're able to say, okay, you know, this isn't okay. I don't like when doors are slammed, but I know that you're trying to tell me something and I want to listen. Well, guess what? That kid doesn't need to slam the door anymore because now you're saying I'm here and I'm open.
This is not okay. This is not okay. I'm setting the limit. I want you to know it. I mean, I think sometimes parents want to, you know, well, they need to feel the consequences. It's like, well, I want them to feel their feelings and be able to manage them. Because emotional development, emotional intelligence, that is such a huge predictor of mental, physical, and emotional and social health.
So
[00:09:01] Hunter: success. Oh my god, Lori, I could just go off in so many different directions on this with you because it's so fascinating to me because I mean, I think like you, I come from a place like where there was a lot of like unskillful language, you know, and I, it's funny cause I've talked to my, talked to my dad about that.
And, and we see sort of these patterns, uh, over time where when, when he was a kid, he was really shamed for having dyslexia, but he was also like beaten with a belt, um, you know, under on his legs. And that was just normal. That was just normal parenting then, you know, that wasn't considered anything abusive, you know, and I was.
yelled at and spanked. And I remember like being chased down the hall and petrified and fear, right? Totally petrified fear. And like, you know, for me, you know, my dad was saying, well, yeah, you know, he said, well, you are not, you're really not yelling at your kids and, or as much as you can. Right. And really practicing to not do that.
So you're sort of taking it up a notch. And I remember feeling like, well, it's not enough to just not yell. I really like what you're talking about, about this idea. of connection. But, but for those who are still like have a big question mark over their head, for the listeners listening who has a big question mark over their head and they say, you know, I don't know, like my parents like spanked me or yelled at me and I'm fine, like what's the big deal?
Like, what do you say to that? You know,
[00:10:30] Lori Petro: we all grow up, right? We grow up and, in spite of our childhoods, because of them, which isn't. Here's the thing. How were, I want to know how you were then. Just like you said, you were petrified running down the hall. That's who I'm concerned about. Now we're adults. We learn how to, you know, we're relearning a lot of us now how to take care of ourselves.
When we look at our own reactions to our kids, you know, why do we get so upset when the shoes aren't put on in time? Why do we feel like we need to scream and yell? We're not okay. You know, because if we're in patterns where we're engaging in negative, um, communication with our kids, that's constantly just creating power struggles.
Then how are we so okay? Right? And this isn't about blaming anyone, like you're talking about your parents, like it's getting less with each generation. The intensity of the pain and sadness with which we actually have been communicating for, you know, all of our history as we know it, for the most part.
So much of it is being healed though, because through this awareness, we're just taking care of ourselves.
[00:11:54] Hunter: Stay tuned for more Mindful Mama podcasts right after this break.
[00:12:02] Lori Petro: So I want to, I want to help parents feel like they're supported too. I don't want parents to feel like, oh, everything I say, you know, is now going to, you know, ruin my child. No, it's not that. I just want to help them feel like they are being hurt because I think most of the time parents are yelling because they feel like they're not being heard.
And no one's listening to them. And that feeling really does come from running down the hall and being petrified because it just hardwires our brains. So here's the thing, in our interactions with our primary caregivers in those early years, shape, the structure, the size, and the connectivity of our brains.
So when we're constantly using things like fear or blame or shame or judgment, what we're doing is we're stimulating the fight or flight response. So it makes us more reactive. We hardwire patterns that allow us to be quick in danger. You know, responsive in danger. Communicating with our kids is, that's not dangerous situations.
But often we are acting and reacting as if there is a fire and we're all running for our lives because that's what got hardwired for a lot of us. So when we respond to our kids with compassion, with empathy, with patience, that doesn't mean with no rules. It says, I'm not going to let you do this. I'm not, you can't go outside.
You can't have that candy. I'm not going to let you. That's, you know, and then we put that physical boundary and when we need. But when we use the empathy without getting defensive, we stimulate the higher, more evolved parts of our brains that are developing in our children and very immature, right? The thinking part of the brain, the prefrontal cortex, that's the part where self regulation, you know, impulse control, thoughtfulness.
Empathy. That's where that, those things are housed. So that, those are the parts of the brain that we need to stimulate so that we grow them because the brain is a use it or lose it kind of organ. We have to stimulate the areas that we want to grow.
[00:14:09] Hunter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love, I love your emphasis. on Empathy, and I'm all on board with you, and I'm trying to imagine what, you know, what about, what about the parent, like, I recently read, um, I recently read an article that was talking about, you know, what are sort of the things for, for good parenting, and, um, and one, during the toddler years, they said, you know, there should be a little fear mixed in with that, There should be a little fear mixed in that love, right?
Like your child should fear you a little bit, and I just had a big problem with this. And, um, and, um, I, but I know some people think that it's important to have a little bit of fear for your child to be able to listen to you. So how do we get our children to listen to us without that fear? And what, what does that fear What is that fear doing anyway?
[00:15:01] Lori Petro: Well, first, I think it's kind of scary just being a toddler anyway, right? You, you can barely talk. You can, you can't really get anybody to understand what you mean. You're really impulsive. Emotions feel like they're like smacking you in the face and rolling you, you know, you're under the water in the ocean and the waves go.
I mean, so, There's the fear. Like, if we're worried that they need fear, I think that we've got it covered, you know. But, it comes from our own fear, doesn't it? Like, the fear that no one's gonna listen to us, or that they're gonna grow up and people are judging us, and our parents are looking at us, and our friends, and our peers, and like, everybody's judging us, and the teachers, and the lady at the mall that's staring us down.
But did See that most beautiful photo from that actor, um, from some show called Jane the Virgin. And it was him and his toddler and his dad and his wife took the picture and the little girl was on the floor, like face down in the middle of, and his dad and they were just And I'm standing on either end of there like bookmarking her looking down and it's the sweetest photo and he posted it on the internet and it went viral because he talked about just the most important thing that his dad did for him was just letting him feel his feelings.
[00:16:09] Mindful Parenting Member: Oh
[00:16:09] Lori Petro: my god. And he recognized how much that contributed to who he is now as a grown man and so the picture is just so beautiful. There's like two or three year olds on the floor literally face down. People are like, you know, you're just imagining the dirt of the, you know, stop us, right? We'd be like, get up off the floor.
You know, we wouldn't want to let them feel because we'd be worried about the dirt or we'd be worried about who was watching us.
[00:16:32] Hunter: Yeah. What people are, what people are thinking that literally gives me goosebumps, that story, Laurie, because it is so rare, it's so
[00:16:40] Lori Petro: unusual. It was really beautiful. And it reminded me as a buddy, my friend posted it on my timeline because the exact same thing happens to me in the, I was walking, I lived in Los Angeles at the time.
My daughter's about three. And something happened and she got upset and she, we were in the middle of the street walking to the farmer's market. She just decided to lay down on the floor and have a screaming, melting, fall down cry. And we were doing the exact same thing that these guys were doing in the photo.
And I remember this one family stopping to watch. And then they talked with us after because she said, I was just so fascinated that you were, that she was lying on the ground and you were just kind of standing there compassionately watching, but not really. You know, doing or saying anything, and we had this long conversation after and became friends, you know, so it's just those moments, we need to celebrate those moments.
So I was so happy that that photo went viral, because I feel like it's not rare, but it's not celebrated enough.
[00:17:35] Hunter: Well, you know, it's like you think about every single problem. in our society. And it, everything, almost everything comes back to people not knowing how to take care of their big feelings, right?
And not, like, having it be rejected, like, you're not supposed to have those feelings, or you're wrong, you're bad, or whatever for having those feelings. And almost every single problem in our society goes back to that. Like, people just Unable to accept their own difficult feelings. And it all comes back to our childhood.
And I think this, like, you know, Lori and I here are talking a lot about how we were raised as parents, as children, because this really does, it really creates a sort of pattern for how we are then parenting our kids. It's not, we're not, it's not blaming the, our parents, but it's just like looking at and understanding and creating that awareness.
Um, but yeah, it all goes back to not being able to feel your big feelings. Absolutely. Definitely.
[00:18:32] Lori Petro: And most of us, we might not even know that we're having feelings because we've never actually named them or identified them or connected the feeling, the emotional state of our body with the physical sensations that we're having.
That's so important. That whole mind body connection, which is why what you do. It puts us in touch with that mind, you know, so that we can be still enough to recognize ourselves and our emotional state before we do explode. And here's the thing. We explode, right? I yell. I am no different than anybody else, but I'm a way, I don't stand up for my yelling and do it in this self righteous way.
Like, well, they deserved it or she needed, you know, and it called for that or where I go back and I say, you know what, that probably was scary for you. And I'm going to do this the next time I'm feeling really dysregulated or angry. I'm going to walk away and get some water and then come back and talk because I shouldn't, I shouldn't be talking, you know, unless I'm yelling because there actually is danger.
That's when, that's when yelling is appropriate, you know, yelling and then running to help the child out of the street when they're, you know, running into it. But let in our everyday interaction, I feel like that's where we just need to Pull it back and take, but that self care is what helps us not be so reactive.
[00:19:47] Hunter: Yeah. Yeah. That whole being less reactive pieces is, uh, huge. I mean, that's what, That's what we work on in the mindful parenting is this whole first half is like, let's, let's figure out, let's use, use these mindfulness techniques, establish a practice so that you can actually make yourself less reactive, right?
It's the one thing that's sort of proven to help us be less reactive is to sort of Sit still and breathe and notice their breathing. It's, it's kind of amazing. Um, so what are some of the, so we don't want to use fear, blame, and judgment, right? Because these cause the stress response. So then what if you have a toddler then?
And how, what do we do to help have that toddler listen to us?
[00:20:33] Lori Petro: Oh, right. That, you did ask that. How do we get our kids to listen? Right. So I think we have to shift out of this idea that they're supposed to listen to us. So if we need them to put their shoes on because we have to get out the door at 1030, well then make sure, let's make sure that we have a plan and that plan might be picking up the screaming toddler and putting them in the car seat without their shoes and being okay with that.
Like not feeling like we have to convince our kids that they have to listen to us. Listening to us usually just implies obedience and I want more for us. I think we want more for our kids. We want to be influential so we can, we can have obedience and you can control, especially toddlers, pretty easily, some of them, not all, but some.
with fear, with, you know, takeaways, with all of that, but then we're not, are we actually stimulating the right part of the brain to develop and grow? Right? We're not because all of that stimulates the fear centers. So we have to let go of this idea that kids are going to agree with us and agree with our limits and then take care of ourselves.
[00:21:29] Hunter: And then like, make our own, have, we're the ones responsible for taking care of our own needs and our own limits. Right? It's kind of what you're
[00:21:36] Lori Petro: saying. And be okay with them getting upset because they will. If you're looking for a child who's going to be like, Okay, yes, Mommy, I'm not going to have any more candy today.
Okay, yes, Daddy, I'm not going to scream anymore. I feel completely at ease with the fact that I'm not allowed to go out. You know, like they're never, it's time to separate because we have to, you know, go to sleep now. I need at least 10 hours. I completely, like, they're not going there. They're not logical.
They're emotional. They're irrational. So that's the toddler preschooler. Even when they start to develop some of that capacity to be more emotionally flexible, that part of the brain takes the entire span of childhood to develop, like into age, you know, into early 20s. And that's just current neuroscience.
We know that the brain continues to change. So even though we may be really reactive at 30 and 40, we can change too. So we can develop the capacity to be less reactive with our kids. And then suddenly we see toddlers who quote unquote aren't listening and we're able to shift into a proactive state of taking care of ourselves, meeting our needs.
and still setting boundaries, right? But here's the thing. We have to stop being afraid that if we don't, you know, apply punishment or consequences that our kids are going to like be these unruly, tribal, crazy people with no Well, the truth is, right,
[00:22:56] Hunter: The punishment doesn't work though. I mean, like the thing that I, because I've done both, you know, I thought I was all on board with authoritarian parenting in the beginning and I was like, my child will blah, blah, blah.
And then I discovered you and I discovered some other things. Or you
[00:23:10] Lori Petro: discovered your children were
[00:23:12] Hunter: like,
[00:23:12] Lori Petro: well, maybe
[00:23:13] Hunter: not, Mom. Exactly, you know, because the thing is, like, it doesn't really work. Well, like, we have this idea that it's like, this is working so well, but like, maybe if you have your kids in this incredibly fearful regime, you know, they're absolutely obedient.
But, um Until what age? Until they're 10. I know, exactly. Until your power runs out. Like, if we use power, like, we, it just, it really backfires, like, when I order my kids around, that's exactly when they are the most resistant to me. You know what I mean? Like, it just
[00:23:45] Lori Petro: doesn't work that well. And that's the key.
You just hit on something really, really important. When we order and boss them around, what are they then learning to go out and do to get their needs met? Order across everybody around. And so it becomes the smaller child or their little sibling. Now, obviously some sibling conflict is normal and natural and going to, you know, need to unfold in a way that helps kids live together, but it shouldn't be all the time.
And kids then learn to Rely on others to meet their needs. So then it becomes all about, well, you're making me mad and you're making me sad. And if you wouldn't do this, then I wouldn't be this way. And who's taking accountability? So we want to, I want to teach my kid to be responsible for her actions and to know that what, what other people do, it may.
She may, you know, have a feeling, a reaction to it. She may see it and it may stir something in her, these emotions. But then from that point on, she has the ability to direct that story. Now she can either be like, oh, these emotions are overtaking me and I have no control and let them overwhelm her. And when we're young, it does because we don't have a lot of control.
And that's where the connection piece comes in. So parents come to that toddler who's upset or that seven year old and instead of trying to, you know, use logic to be like, well, it's just this way and then don't you see that? And we try to like convince them. We just have to honor their immaturity, honor where they are.
That must feel really tough. What, you know, because after you honor that, then you can get to what do you think could have been different? What would you have liked to happen? What do you think you were really trying to say when you hit your friend on the arm? You know, then they are able to, once they're calm and feeling connected to somebody else, because we develop, our emotional development happens through our interactions and with our primary caregivers, right?
Our parents, our grandparents, family members, whoever are those immediate people in a child's life. That's what's shaping how they feel about their world and how they respond and how they're present. Make, they're making memories out of every interaction. I kind of found a tangent there.
[00:25:58] Hunter: No, no, I love your tangents.
I love your tangents because there's so much wisdom in there. Um, but I mean, I think that, I think that kind of what you're pointing to is this idea of, um, I don't know, like self love and self acceptance in some way. Like, I feel like in a lot of the women I work with, one of the biggest challenges that we have, it all comes down to like that.
We, Don't, you know, there's this, this feeling of unworthiness, like we can't love and accept ourselves. And I feel like that in turn goes back to our childhood, right? Like we're always taught from childhood that we are not good enough because we're always, you know, someone's always pointing out what we're doing wrong or how to do it better or things like that.
And, and what you're saying, like, instead is, you know, um, Honor, acknowledge where they are, right? Like, you were really upset. Like, even if your child's having a, you know, a crappy day and hits their friend, you were really upset, like you, your, your language, your communication with your body and your words.
says that you still love and accept them for who they are. Your love isn't conditional. You still love and accept them for who they are, but you, you know, but there's still a boundary there of like, what, this wasn't okay. What can we do instead? Is that, is that kind of what you're pointing to? Definitely.
Definitely. And, and
[00:27:20] Lori Petro: believe me, it doesn't have, it doesn't have to be said with this, like we're, we're like praising our children for having, you know, I'm not saying that we have to be all like sweet and soft and. You know, you could be like, I'm not going to let you go in the other room because it's not safe to hit people and you're feeling really angry right now, you know, and we maybe we're just really direct and, but calm and not judgmental.
It's really just about pulling out the, your fault or you're doing this and if you don't stop, it's pulling that out of the language and yes, saying it's okay to have feelings. I think that all of the, it's such a vicious cycle, right? It's like, we're not allowed, we're so afraid of our own. The judgments of other people that we're trying to just control the emotions of our kids into this neat little package of like perfect children that, you know, we think we have to present to the world.
And then those children, because of the words that we use, those children grow up. To think that it's not normal or healthy to have these feelings because they were always told to calm down or it's no big deal or why are you acting this way or you shouldn't be doing this. And then, yeah, we grow up and we think, why am I having these feelings?
I'm something must be wrong with me. And then from there develops this, you know, belief that we're unworthy. We're not, you know, you know, worthy of love and all of these ideas. But it stems from this discomfort within our own, like our own thoughts and emotions. We things come up and we panic. Hurry.
[00:28:49] Hunter: Yeah.
Yeah. I know. It's crazy, right? It's all this like, it all goes back to that. I mean, I feel like, um, yeah. And, and so then, so then parents come to, they come to you, they come to me and they talk and it's like, they're having trouble take, you know, with their own yelling, their own big feelings, right? There's a stuff that comes up when their children are, are having these big feelings and, and there's, there's shame that comes up around that.
And then to To, um, to tell, it's hard in some ways to like sort of communicate that there's, there's no judgment around that. Like that, of course, of course you have these, like, of course, this is hard for you to deal with because, you know, like, like, of course, you know, and so this is where like that self compassion work comes in.
Like, you know, of course you have these feelings and it's like, we almost have to like cultivate this. Yeah, like we have to cultivate that, that, that voice inside of us that is, is like our own best friend instead of this. You know, uh, you know, our, our, our angry mom.
[00:29:59] Lori Petro: Well, it's exactly true. So really like with the, my conscious communication cards that I use and that I share on Facebook, when I make, we have to take what I'm saying, not, you know, to avoid with children, like demands and judgment and shame.
And first we have to apply that to ourselves. Yes. So self talk cannot be, cause I had so many parents that come to me and guilt ridden and so, so it's such like wracked with guilt. And it's so common and we need to start accepting ourselves and accepting that this is hard and that our children, for the most part, are typical because we all have, like, there's never a parenting challenge I see somebody post on online or in our one of our groups or in a group, you know, call or something that 50, 100, 000 other parents have not already asked about.
You can find that question online. Like, nobody's doing this alone. We are all experiencing parenting. such similar developmental milestones with our children as they go from being really needy and dependent on us for everything to autonomous, self directed, thoughtful, compassionate people. But we need to, yes, change that self talk from the very beginning, because we can have all the words to say to our kids.
Like, I can help us translate the punitive into the proactive, right, into the compassionate. But in that moment, if you're not feeling calm and regulated enough, you're not gonna be able to access those words that you remember looking at, you know, just yesterday or two hours ago. You're not gonna be able to access that because your brain, the access to the language centers shuts down when we're in fight or flight.
We don't need to talk. We just need to, you know, act. Yeah. That's why everything is so, that's why when, you know, we yell at kids, sometimes we don't remember what we said, or our kids are yelling, they don't remember what they're saying because in fight or flight, we're not, you know, consciously preparing thoughtful words to, you know, explain ourselves.
We're basically just reacting in fear.
[00:32:00] Hunter: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, so you develop these conscious communication cards, which are so amazing. So what are some of the biggest, what are some of the biggest, uh, communication barriers, right? What are, what are, what are some of the, some of the big things that are so common, maybe, that we say that, that aren't so helpful?
Because I think it's, Sometimes we, you know, most of the time, I think we just don't even know, like, we don't even know that that's gonna cause a bad reaction because it's just, this is what people say. So what are some of the common ones?
[00:32:33] Lori Petro: Yes. And here's, this is what I want to, I want to speak to this because we all know that, right?
We're not supposed to be yelling, calling names. We don't need to like that kind of extreme stuff. But what about the little stuff? Like we have a child who's not paying attention and we start, we start out and we say, we turn around and look at me when I'm speaking to you, or it might even be really calm, you know, turn around and look at me when I'm speaking to you.
And then we should, you know, it's, okay, it's, it's a demand, but it's a direct, you know, request, but then we might go and say something, well, look, this is what happens when you don't pay attention, right? We say that we're so well meaning, our intentions are good, but it's just judgmental and sort of shuts down our kids or we want to just control them through advice.
We're like, just sit still. If you, if you watch what you're doing, you'll be able to finish. You know, we just sort of then get into these controlling moments and then, you know, they're all rigid and stressed out. And then we go, well, look, look what happens. You know, I need you to listen to me so that you don't make that mistake.
Look at me. Do you understand?
[00:33:37] Hunter: So, if I'm the child, I'm trying to imagine this, like, from the point of view of the child, like, so if I'm the child, I'm feeling like, like, nothing I do is right, kind of like, is this kind of the, the reaction, yeah, that happens? And
[00:33:52] Lori Petro: that's not, I didn't mean that as mom, I'm just trying really, really hard because I know this is taking a long time for everybody.
I'm just trying to get you to just, just look, just pay attention for five minutes and you'll be able to do this. But here's what we can do. Instead of the demands and like that fear, but it's fear, right? So it's not coming from this place of maliciousness. It's just coming from
[00:34:14] Hunter: fear, fear, fear that our child won't be able to do this or this kind of place, not of trust, right?
We don't trust that they can. Do it so we this like advising and advising is we talk about that in Mindful Parenting like it's one of them It's like universally discussed. It's like one of the communication barriers, but it's yeah It's so like I still advise like
[00:34:34] Lori Petro: it's so hard. It's hard not to Let's go right to like, you know, let's go step by step.
Let me help you with this project. But what we can do instead is just offer an invitation to connect. So first, that's what we have to do. We have to get our kids attention by showing them that we want to help them. So just something as simple as, would you be willing to look at me? I have something really important to share with you.
Right? Instead of, turn around and look at me when I'm speaking to you. Stay
[00:35:05] Hunter: tuned for more Mindful Mama podcasts right after this break.
Yeah, instead of ordering, just say it, say it in a, like, what I, sometimes I like the, the way I like to think about it is like, for some reason, like, the, you know, all the ordering and demanding, like, we talk to kids in this way that we just don't talk to, you know, like, Anybody else in our lives, you know, like, yeah, like maybe if, you know, maybe if it were another era and we had servants or something, right, but like we, you know, like if you had a roommate or if you had your sister over, or if you had a friend over, you wouldn't say like, turn around and talk, look at me when I talk to you and say, Hey, you know, look over here for a second.
I have something to tell you. That's really important. You know, you would say it in just a different way. And so sometimes kind of like my husband and I's shortcut that we've developed to kind of like help us shift our mindset is to like, imagine that we're talking to like our, our roommate,
[00:36:07] Lori Petro: you know? Yes, exactly.
Because it takes out that. You're so right in that we wouldn't talk to friends or anybody else like that. But it also, when we think about it that way, we can kind of just take out that feeling that they're out to get us, because I think that that's sometimes, like, we feel like they're just doing it because they want to be that way and they're trying to get us because, you know, and sometimes kids are feeling so disconnected that they're shut down and unable to respond to our requests and things because they don't feel like we like them very much.
Amen. Our frustration, again, can come across as we don't like them. But just like what you were saying, it's like we almost talk to them like we don't trust that they're going to do what we hope that they'll do. So we need to add a little bit of, you know, control or fear or this or that. And so we're not trusting that their development will unfold naturally with us being patient and calm.
I mean, another example, when we say something like, you know, this is what happens when you don't pay attention. That's my really earnest desire to say, look at the details. You know, look over here, look over there. But. That doesn't give the child any quality feedback. So I'm all about giving them quality feedback.
So if I say something like instead of judging or shaming what I see or what I think you're not paying attention is what I see what it's happening. Don't you know, can't you see it? Can I just notice what I see without the judgment? So I can just say to the child, you know, I noticed by the way that you're standing that it would be hard to follow those directions.
You know, because maybe the child is staring, you know, staring, looking off into space and you know that just by looking at them, the way that they're standing there and looking out the window, that it's probably going to be a little bit hard to follow the directions. So let's look at me for a moment, have something important to share, right?
And then wait for them. And then, you know, if they don't look at us immediately, we might. Get frustrated, right? But just if we can just slow down in the times that we don't have to rush Times that we do have to rush. It's not going to feel like this is the everyday chronic, you know tension That's built up to a crazy point.
Like it just won't we'll have moments of conflict, right? It's not to say that conflict disappears, but the everyday interactions don't have to be such a power struggle Yes, just you know, it's just saying to a kid, you know, you seem focused on something else You That helps their brain connect and think about, Oh, what, what am I focused on?
Or someone's, you know, interested in what I'm focused on. You know, there's the connection piece. Instead of, you know, pay attention. You just have to sit still and telling them, you know, what to do instead of recognizing what they are doing and then let their brains do some work to shift their situation.
A lot of times we're telling and demanding and we're not giving their, you know, that big thinking part of their brain Anything to do. Following orders doesn't help the brain develop, right? So they don't actually then get to think on their own and make decisions. They sort of abdicate that responsibility saying, well, I'm just going to get told what to do anyway, or they fear making those decisions because they don't want to do it wrong.
[00:39:14] Hunter: Yeah, and then they resist it. I, I, I was thinking this, about this, because this morning I had, I feel like I had like a, a pretty good interaction, like, uh, where my daughter was, we had to go to swim team practice, and she was like lying on the couch reading, which she's a voracious reader and could read for hours and hours and hours.
We've gone through a whole things where, you know, listen, it's really important that, you know, you get your stuff done and then you can sit and read when you're all ready to go. Right, you know? Um, so she was sitting and reading, and so I went over to her and said, you know, Hey, when I see you sitting and reading, I feel worried that, you know, we're going to be rushed later.
You know, just letting her know that's how I feel rather than kind of like this sort of you statement, I guess, is kind of So, does that give the Lori seal of
[00:40:04] Lori Petro: approval, or what would you say in that situation? I think we always want to be honest with our kids, but here's the little, just one little tiny caveat to that.
And that is that we don't want our children to act because we feel worried. No? So, um, Well, I mean, if it's to develop a skill like self discipline and organization, our worry is probably going to make them panic more than it's going to make them thoughtfully aware. She just seemed annoyed. I, panic, annoyance is definitely, like, the fight or flight is what I mean by panic, right?
So annoyance comes out because it's like, Uh, Reactive, whatever's reactive, but here's the thing, there are some times, you know, when we can tell our kids that we're worried about them. Like when things are actually, they're doing things that are dangerous, that's when I'm really gonna worry. But I would say, I'm feeling a little stressed, I'm wondering, here's, I like to prompt with a question.
[00:41:01] Mindful Parenting Member: I'm
[00:41:01] Lori Petro: wondering if you have everything together that you need. So then it's so prompting with the question, you're telling her how you feel, or I feel, like feeling stressed or worried or whatever words, worry, it's like, even in that moment, it's a yes or no. Like, I'm not here to be the language police, you know, like I don't want to, but I just want us to be really aware of our intention.
So that's the big thing. So by going in with the intention of making her really aware of how worried I am so that she does something about it, because then we're walking in with the intention of making Not with the intention, with this feeling of fear, right? I don't want to let go of that. Or are we walking in to prompt, to give quality feedback, to prompt the development of whatever we want?
So you talked, we talked a little bit about the cards. The cards are divided into three color coded areas to target root causes because we can pinpoint any behavior in one of these, one or a combination of, you know, all three of these areas, one or more of these areas, and they are stress, skills, and support.
So stress is when our kids are either overwhelmed by the environment, by, you know, sensory stuff. Feelings dysregulated in their bodies. And we know we need the first aid that we need to go in and help them with is to help them calm their stress response. It's not to go in and give logic, advice, you know, demands, make change.
It's really just about soothing the system. Then the second area is skill development. Sometimes kids are just developmentally immature. And so they don't have the skills that we're requiring of them. You know, they can't put on their shoes really fast because right now they're so focused on something and they're little and their brains can't shift that fast.
So we need to go in and sort of help them along with this skill or practice. What are we going to use to practice? Are we going to get, um, you know, timers or visual aids guides so that kids know, you know, what's next or where to put things when, you know, it's time to clean up. So we can help kids develop their skills with lots of different tools.
And then there's support. Do we need to, is this a child who's resisting because our relationship has broken down and they don't feel very supported and we need to come in, or maybe the relationship hasn't broken down, but they need connections. It's that they're feeling lonely, isolated, lost, worried, and they need us to come in with our empathy and our connection.
I feel like we always start there anyway, no matter what the direct challenge is, but sometimes kids are actually resisting us because we've been so over controlling. So we need to kind of go in and recognize that the support that we're giving is what matters most. It's about the empathy, it's about connecting with what's really important to their needs.
So stress, support, and skills. Help us identify what we should focus on, because every situation is unique. Sometimes, yeah, we do want to share that we're worried with our kids, right? It's, but sometimes we know that this is actually time for them to work on their skills. So it's not about sharing our feelings about giving them a tool to manage their time or, you know, something like that.
Actual. So when we pinpoint these areas, we can then, you know, laser focus in on giving our kids what they need in that moment, without feeling like we're always giving punishments or demanding and nothing is ever getting done.
[00:44:15] Hunter: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, just So rather than kind of looking at, you know, the idea of punishment or threatening or using fear to kind of solve the problem and get our needs met, it's like looking at our kids and seeing what kind of, what kind of support do you need to make sure life is gonna move, you know, we're gonna move through the day smoothly, that kind of thing.
[00:44:36] Lori Petro: Exactly, exactly. I mean, these are long term life skills that we're building with our kids. Being able to communicate, being able to relate to others, being able to take responsibility for their emotions and their behaviors. Those are skills that are developing and that take a long time and that if we allow them to make those mistakes in our presence without the fear of being judged or shamed or blamed for their just very natural develop, you know, stage of development, then they go out into the world.
And they can put forth their best face and their best, you know, and they're proud and they feel capable. Like I let my kid fall apart at home, you know, it's, there's still boundaries. You know, when she yells and screams at me or says something, then we go back and talk about it. But she's usually at now at 11, she's usually the first one to come and say, mom, I was really angry.
And I didn't mean that. Without me having to prompt anything. Well, that's beautiful. But I let her fall apart at home when she needs to. And I don't judge it. And we talk about what you, you know, got really angry and here's what we can do instead next time. But I don't ever take the position of how dare you, you know, well, again, when I'm regulated and if I become dysregulated and I become that judgmental parent, I go back in.
And I repair with her so that our connection, our relationship is the glue that helps her develop. It's the glue that keeps us, does she, she doesn't want it, doesn't even want to lie to me because she feels, she cares about what I think. You know, she's at that stage where sometimes her friends are trying to get away with things and.
She just comes and she just tells me. She's like, so my friend wanted me to lie to you about where we're going to go to the park, but she really wants to go over to the baseball field. And I just wanted to tell you, is that okay? And she leaves and goes and she does it in private. Because she's like, I don't know why, she doesn't want to tell you.
And you know, sometimes it's because kids are afraid of getting lectured, getting punished, or shamed, or judged for their ideas. You know, even the idea, well why do you want to go to the baseball field? Silly, just go to the park, it's across the street. You know, it's like they're just trying to avoid all of that sometimes.
And
[00:46:42] Mindful Parenting Member: so
[00:46:43] Lori Petro: when we let them be open and expressive, but still set boundaries, then they don't feel the need to resist us so much.
[00:46:52] Hunter: You're, you're talking about the idea of growing our influence, right? And yeah, rather than our power. And there's, there's like an inverse relationship between influence and power, right?
The more we use our power, The less influence we have, like, I could see that in my own childhood, like, then when I was a teenager, there was zero power, and zero
[00:47:15] Lori Petro: influence. Yeah. I'm smarter now. I don't need you as much. I've got these friends who are telling me everything I want to hear. That's the other thing.
And I think that, um, Dr. Gordon Neufeld, I'm going to say, right, is the one that talks about, well, I get a lot of, a lot of educators do, but really talks about, um, Keeping that attachment strong with our kids because when they get older, they will start to listen to the people outside of, of their, you know, close circle, and those people will be more influential if we don't keep those bonds strong, if our kids don't know.
And again, it's unconscious, like they don't realize, or we don't realize that we're sending messages of blame and shame and judgment and guilt, when we say things like, well, this is what happens when you don't pay attention, or I told you that was going to happen. Why didn't you just study more? Why didn't you look both ways?
Or why didn't you just ask your friend? Or why didn't you use your words? You know, all these things that we say to try to help are actually, you know, tearing away at our, you know, our influence.
[00:48:17] Hunter: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And that's, that's when they need it the most. I mean, that was like, That's, that's our, our big hope, you know, for my husband and I is that we don't have kids who just hate us when they're teenagers.
And want to, like, get, you know, because you, we need that influence then. Like that's a hard time, like that's an important time for you to have influence with your kids and to, you know Yeah. To be there and to keep that connection going. Um, well, Laurie, this is amazing. Thank you so much for, for all this work.
And I just want to let everyone know that Laurie is going to be, um, offering a bonus for the Mindful Parenting course. Well, Laurie, yeah, absolutely. Like, I could just, I could talk to you about this for hours because it really is transformative. It's life changing. I mean, I think that, One of the things that we didn't touch on that is important to realize is that, you know, this sort of transformation of your communication, it really works.
Like, you kind of touched on it with your story about your daughter not lying to you, but it really does work. Like, there's, we have more cooperation and we have better relationships. Like, no, they are not automatons. They are not like always like, Absolutely, a hundred percent obedient like soldiers, but they, uh, they help us out way more than they ever used to.
And we have great cooperation and, and this kind of shifting to a model of using your influence rather than your power really, really does work. And, and Laurie, your work is amazing for just pointing out, um, just helping us be much more skillful in our communication. Thank you. Thank you. I'm
[00:49:58] Lori Petro: so grateful for people like you, or we're leading the change together.
We are all joining and saying, this is helping us at home. It's creating willing cooperation, so.
[00:50:09] Hunter: Yeah, and the ripple effects. Yeah. Yay! Yay, yay, yay. Cool. So everyone go check out, um, you know, Lori's Kickstarter and if you are listening to this a year from now or whenever, um, go to teachthroughlove. com, all spelled out, or you just Google it, uh, maybe.
Three years from now, there won't be Google. No, so you're, what you'll do about this, you'll, you'll figure it out. You might just have to think it and it'll pop up on your screen. Oh my God, it'll just, it'll just download into your brain. Um, thank you so much, Lori. Thank you, Hunter.
Thank you so much for listening to the Mindful Mama podcast. I really appreciate it. I hope you liked this conversation with Lori. She's an amazing teacher, isn't she? I really love how she said how kids are. not logical, they're emotional, they're reactional, you know, she just helps me. I don't know if she does this for you, but she helps me shift my expectations about, you know, what it is to be a kid and how we should be relating with them.
Sending you lots of wishes if you are in this sort of warm sticky air that I am in right now for some cool pieces. But maybe you are on the other side of the globe and I'm wishing you a nice cozy fire. I don't know. Have a great week. Namaste.
[00:51:48] Mindful Parenting Member: I'd say definitely do it. It's really helpful. It will change your relationship with your kids for the better. It will help you communicate better. And just, I'd say communicate better as a person, as a wife, as a spouse. It's been really a positive influence in our lives, so definitely do it. I'd say definitely do it.
It's so worth it. The money really is inconsequential when you get so much benefit from being a better parent to your children and feeling like you're connecting more with them and not feeling like you're yelling all the time or you're like, why isn't this working? I would say definitely do it. It's so, so worth it.
It'll change you. No matter what age someone's child is, it's a great opportunity for personal growth and it's a great investment in someone's family. You can continue in your old habits that aren't working, or you can learn some new tools and gain some perspective to shift everything in your parenting.
[00:52:51] Hunter: Are you frustrated by parenting? Do you listen to the experts and try all the tips and strategies, but you're just not seeing the results that you want? Or are you lost as to where to start? Does it all seem so overwhelming with too much to learn? Are you yearning for community people who get it, who also don't want to threaten and punish to create cooperation?
Hi, I'm Hunter Clark Fields, and if you answered yes to any of these questions, I want you to seriously consider the Mindful Parenting membership. You'll be joining hundreds of members who have discovered the path of mindful parenting, and now have confidence and clarity in their parenting. This isn't just another parenting class.
This is an opportunity to really discover your unique, lasting relationship, not only with your children, but with yourself. It will translate into lasting, connected relationships, not only with your children, but your partner too. Let me change your life. Go to MindfulParentingCourse. com to add your name to the wait list, so you will be the first to be notified when I open the membership for enrollment.
I look forward to seeing you on the inside. MindfulParentingCourse. com
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