Carla Naumburg, PhD, LICSW is a clinical social worker and the author of five books, including the bestselling How to Stop Losing Your Sh*t With Your Kids and its forthcoming middle-grade companion How to Stop Freaking Out. Her writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Huffington Post, CNN, and Mindful Magazine, among other places. Carla lives in Massachusetts with her husband and two daughters.
505: Help Your Kid Stop Freaking Out
Carla Naumburg
What do we do when kids are having a hard time and seem to just “freak out?” We nonchalantly drop Carla Naumburg’s new book, “How to Stop Freaking Out” on the coffee table and walk away. Carla comes on to talk about this book and how parents can best support our kids when they freak out.
Help Your Kid Stop Freaking Out - Carla Naumburg
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*This is an auto-generated transcript*
[00:00:00] Carla Naumburg, PhD: I'm getting better writing these books, my journey into mindfulness, knowing people like you, knowing you and learning from you and your strategies and the strategies and skills of mindfulness and self compassion have really helped me freak out a whole lot less often. And when I do freak out, it's way less intense than it used to be.
[00:00:22] Hunter: You're listening to The Mindful Parenting Podcast, episode number 505. Today, we're talking about how to help your kids stop freaking out with Karla Naumberg.
Welcome to the Mindful Parenting Podcast. Here it's about becoming a less irritable, more joyful parent. At Mindful Parenting, we know that you cannot give what you do not have, and when you have calm and peace within, then you can give it to your children. I'm your host, Hunter Clarke-Fields. I help smart, thoughtful parents stay calm so they can have strong, connected relationships with their children. I've been practicing mindfulness for over 25 years, I'm the creator of the Mindful Parenting course, and I'm the author of the international bestseller Raising Good Humans and now Raising Good Humans Every Day, 50 Simple Ways to Press Pause, Stay Present, and Connect with Your Kids. Hey, welcome back, dear listener, and if you're new, special welcome if you're an older, More familiar listener, I'd love it if you have ever gotten some value from this podcast to go and just tell a friend about the podcast today and that just helps grow the show and it can make a huge difference and I really, really appreciate it.
In just a moment, I'm going to be sitting down with Carla Nauenberg, PhD, licensed clinical social worker and author of five books, including the bestselling How to Stop Losing Your Beep with Your Kids and the forthcoming middle grade companion How to Stop Freaking Out, which is what we're going to be talking about today. Her writing has appeared in the New York Times, The Washington Post, The Huffington Post, CNN. Mindful Magazine, among other places, and Carla lives in Massachusetts with her husband and two daughters. We're going to be talking about what do we do when your kid is having a hard time and they just seem to freak out, right? And this is what her new book for kids is called, “How to Stop Freaking Out”, and we're going to talk about why kids are freaking out these days, what's upsetting them, what what's making them anxious, um, And then how to teach kids, like, what triggers their freakouts and how to handle these triggers. So, um, and what we should do, of course, as parents, to support kids best during their freakouts and after. This is going to be a really super helpful episode, so I know you're going to love it. Join me at the table as I talk to my dear friend, Carla Naumberg.
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[00:03:05] Mindful Mama Member: It's been completely life enhancing to this whole process of connecting with Hunter, but especially the teacher training.
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Carla, welcome back to the Mindful Parenting Podcast. I think you're our most returning guests to ever be on the podcast.
[00:04:10] Carla Naumburg, PhD: I love that for me. I mean, I love it for you too, but really, I love it for me. It's amazing, and I haven't been here in a while, and I'm so happy to be back.
[00:04:17] Hunter: Yay, I'm so happy. We're here to talk about, you have a new book that is out, and I'm so excited about it, and it's a middle grade book. It's called “How to Stop Freaking Out: The Ultimate Guide to Keeping Cool When Life Feels Chaotic”, and it's for tweens, right? Is that the right age? I thought it was like tweenie.
[00:04:43] Carla Naumburg, PhD: It's like 9 to, you know, 13-ish. I think 13 is going to be a little old for this book, probably because when I showed it to my 13 year old daughter, she was like, Haha, this is for little kids. And I was like, calm yourself down. Um, but yeah, so there's this interesting, Sort of phraseology in the book publishing world that didn't used to exist until very recently where we have middle grade books, which are like older than chapter books, but they're not YA. And so these are for kids generally ages like 8 to 12 maybe, um, and that's where this falls. It's a middle grade book. So excited.
[00:05:19] Hunter: Okay, perfect. And we've talked, of course, in past episodes about your other amazing books, how to stop losing your beep with your kids, and all the books. I think you were probably, I thought we talked about Parenting in the Present Moment. It was lovely. That was like a million years ago. It was a million years ago, but I were babies. We were babies. I was so excited to talk to you, but this is such a cool book because like 8 to 12 and this book is, is for, you know, so I'm so excited. I, I have to explain to your listener why I'm so excited because Obviously, I talk a lot to parents about how do we calm our reactivity, how do we calm our stress response so that we can be more present, and basically, how to stop freaking out, right? Like, that's what we're talking about, is like, how to stop freaking out in these critical Difficult moments with our kids so that we can use our whole brain and have a more thoughtful response. And this is like the same thing for little kids and, or not little kids, for age 12 year old kids, sorry. But it's so great because it's whole, it starts out with this like quiz to tell you to, to find out like, what is your flavor of freak out? And it's so great. It's like quick quiz and you have, you have not only three F's, you have five F's. in, in the, the, uh, the, the ultimate guide to the quiz. Okay. So tell me about, tell me about the five, five Fs. There's fight, there's flight, there's freeze, but then there's also
[00:06:55] Carla Naumburg, PhD: Yeah. So we've all heard of fight, flight, freeze as these automatic reactions when we feel threatened, overwhelmed, stressed out, whatever. Our nervous systems like kick into high gear to keep us safe is essentially what they're trying to do, even if safety is not necessarily an issue. But I think there's a couple of others too. So in addition to fight, flight, freeze, I also added flip out and fix, which I think are sort of more, I want to say modern ones, which is a weird thing, but I think they're things that we do now that we're not necessarily. Most of us aren't facing like bears. We're not flipping out because there's- we're not freaking out because there's some giant animal about to attack us. But there were like responses to the more modern stressors. And so flip out is kind of like fighting, except you're not fighting anyone. You're just flippin out, you're slammin doors, you're throwin things, you're screaming, whatever it is. Um, and I think that's an important distinction because I know some kids, and adults, who do flip out and, and lose it and fall apart in very big or even very small, but still feeling out of control ways. But they don't fight anyone.
And other kids do fight, right? They pick a fight either with their words or their bodies, but these are two different things. And then, um, I added fix. And I think this is, I'm going to say a thing. I think this is primarily something that happens among women and girls. I think that's true. But then when we freak out, our inclination is like, I'm just going to do whatever it takes to make this situation better. And often to our own detriment. Um, and it doesn't really fix anything except it soothes over the hard emotions in the moment, but it doesn't actually solve the problem. And it actually is a form of freak out. And I know kids who do this, they just sort of launch into like, okay, I'll do whatever you want, but just like make this moment stop. And it feels very out of control. And it doesn't, as I said, it doesn't fix anything. So I added flip out and fix to this list.
[00:08:51] Hunter: What do you, what did you take your quiz, your own quiz? What were your results?
[00:08:56] Carla Naumburg, PhD: Oh, I'm either a flipper, outter, or fixer, big time. I either scream at my kids, um, or, so when it comes to my kids, when they were younger, I was a screamer, which prompted me to write my previous book, How to Stop Losing Your Beep with Your Kids. Hunter, we are going to keep this a profanity free podcast in the spirit of my book, which is profanity free. It's the first profanity free book I've written in three books. I'm very proud of myself. Congratulations. So I definitely, with my kids, I'm a flipper, outter, and with. My husband, it's either fight or flip out when we get into it. But, um, with the general world, I'm definitely a fixer, like for sure I'm a fixer, but I'm, I'm getting better writing these books, my journey into mindfulness, knowing people like you, knowing you and learning from you and your strategies and the. The strategies and skills of mindfulness and self compassion have really helped me um, freak out a whole lot less often and when I do freak out it's way less intense than it used to be.
[00:09:59] Hunter: Yeah, I would agree. I mean the- you and I obviously relate and probably bonded over this piece about like us freaking out at our kids and then, and then using, using these tools. That's why I love that you're, this book is, you're sharing it with the middle grades. So just to kind of rewind a little bit, like, why, why did you want to write a book about this for, for this age, like eight to 12. What, is there anything special about this age that made you think that they needed this book or?
[00:10:30] Carla Naumburg, PhD: I think so. I mean, there were a few reasons I wanted to write this book. One is that how to stop losing your beep with your kids. did so phenomenally well, got such a great response that I was like, I'm kind of on to something here. I guess I'm not the only one freaking out all the time. Um, and so I wanted to think about like, what are other audiences that I would like to write about this topic for? And I do think middle grade, so that's not necessarily to be confused with middle school, but these kids between the ages of 8 to 12 roughly, It's this really beautiful moment where the kids are really starting to think in a more complicated, interesting, slightly more mature, let's not say it's super mature, they're not there yet, but in a slightly more mature way about themselves and their relationships and their role in the world, and they're also still For the most part, interested in hearing from adults and learning things from other people who aren't their friends. And by the time you get to, like, I would say the teen years of 13 and up, I don't know about your kids, but my kids, they don't want to hear it. They don't want to hear it from me for sure. More open to hearing it from other adults. I don't know if they would pick up a self help book. I really don't. And so, really, where they want to learn it from is their friends. So I feel like we have this sweet spot in these 8 to 12. Tween years that's really like the right place where their brains can really start to engage with this content in meaningful ways and they're still open to the content.
[00:11:59] Hunter: Yeah, that makes sense because I did show your book to my 14 year old and say, Hey, do you want to check this out? She was, like- she gave me the, she gave me the hairy eyeball. And yeah, like, hard pass mom. She was not that interested, but I love it. As far as, you know, to me, it looks like a fun kind of book to read. So what what is considered freaking out?
[00:12:31] Carla Naumburg, PhD: We've talked about this a little bit. It's those, those 5 Fs. The fight, flight, freeze, flip out, and fix. And then overall, I really characterize it as feeling out of control, right? With your body, with your thoughts and feelings. And with your mind. Let's go back to my awesome acronyms from my previous book. I do use the acronym FART to describe because I'm so mature. Everybody here knows, your listeners really know I'm like the pinnacle of maturity. To describe the common sort of factors or themes that come up. So the F is for feelings, right? Our freakouts are really based on our feelings. They're not based in our conscious thoughts. Our freakouts tend to be like automatic and reactive. You know, it's not like we walk into a room and think, Oh. That'd be a really good moment to freak out. I mean, it would be awesome if we did that because then in theory we could think, oh, maybe I won't just freak out, but it doesn't really happen that way. So feelings, automatic, reactive. Now, and then the T in, in previous books, I called it toxic. That was what the T stood for. But in this book for, for kids, I labeled the T astoo far. And that's when we, when our reactions, our behaviors, our experience goes too far. So I make the distinction for my kid readers that, you know, You might, for example, see your baby cousin about to run out into the street and you grab them a little bit harder than you mean to. It might have been based on a feeling of fear. Your response might have been automatic and reactive. But you didn't go too far. It was probably a really good choice to pull your cousin out of traffic so they didn't get injured. But, you know, if your sibling asks to borrow, you know, your new toy or a book or they take something out of your room without asking, and you flip out and throw the remote control at them and slam the door, that's probably going too far. So that's really the T is really an important factor in what makes something a freakout.
[00:14:27] Hunter: I love that the acronym is FART. I think that's so-
[00:14:32] Carla Naumburg, PhD: Well, I just feel like with kids too, we have to be able to laugh about this stuff because you get too serious and kids don't want to read that and people don't want to think about it and I'm, I think humor is a great way to help folks think about hard topics.
[00:14:44] Hunter: Yeah, yeah, I think, and I love that this acronym, this FART acronym existed before the middle grade book.
[00:14:53] Carla Naumburg, PhD: Yeah, yes it did, Hunter, yes it did. And I love that you love it because sometimes I talk to other adults about it and they're like, uh, oh, okay, yeah, so, yes, I talk about farts in my books, you should know that.
[00:15:04] Hunter: Anyway, it's, it's great because if you're eight, nine years old, you love that somebody is actually mentioning farts. And then I think it's so great because it's like, farts are like the spoonful of sugar that help the medicine go down.
[00:15:22] Carla Naumburg, PhD: I had never thought about it that way, and I've just had, like, you're amazing. I love this. It's like a farty spoonful. A little hunch or a clump of it. Little thoughts. Okay. All right. I have to put a wording in this episode just for a fart warning. Really? Really? No, no fart warnings. I draw the line. People can handle this.
[00:15:52] Hunter: All right. Stay tuned for more Mindful Mama podcasts right after this break.
So we know there's like this with adolescence and there's this whole people are talking a lot about adolescents- adolescent girls, particularly- with social media and anxiety and all this stuff, and that there's a crisis in adolescents now when we're talking about ages like 8 to 12, what are, what are most kids in these ages freaking out about?
[00:18:43] Carla Naumburg, PhD: What are they freaking out about? I mean, I think the thing about freakouts is that they can be about anything. anything, right? Like, I have a kid who really doesn't freak out unless she's hungry or tired, and then when she's hungry or tired, like, I look at her sideways and she freaks out, right? So I think freakouts can be about anything. I do think that, you know, and I talk about triggers a lot in all my books. I'm big at thinking about people's triggers and how we reduce them, but I think our freakouts are brought on when we're triggered, right? And I think that kids still struggle with many of the same triggers they've always struggled with, which can include anything from basic human needs, like our need for sleep, our need for food, our need to spend time with people.
We love doing things that are fun. Our need to move our bodies and spend time outside, right? So when we don't, when those needs aren't met, we're more likely to be triggered, or as I say in the book, our buttons get bigger and super pushable. Right. I do think now we are dealing with a whole new set of triggers that didn't exist in the past, which is social media. And I remember being this age and knowing exactly when my friends were hanging out and I wasn't invited or feeling self conscious about how I looked or how I dressed and feeling like I didn't look or dress as well as my friends did, um, which I think that's a lot of the content that comes up in social media. I think the problem is it's just much more accessible. And yes, kids ages eight to 12, whether or not they should be on these platforms, many of them are. I don't want to say that kids are triggered for like the first time ever. Obviously, you know, my grandparents worried about getting polio. That must've been a terrifying trigger. And then other people worried about getting drafted into wars, or worried about their parents, I guess, getting drafted into wars, or worrying about the threat of a nuclear bomb, and kids these days are stressing about climate change and school shootings. I mean, there's always something really real and really scary to be triggered by. And so, I think kids are freaking out about really small stuff and really big stuff and everything in between. Like they always have.
[00:20:51] Hunter: Yeah, I think so. Because they're humans. I mean, it just seems like there's a lot also, like, just a lot more awareness of it now, right? I feel like sometimes, like, we, you know, there's some, there's some evidence that, like, sometimes, like, as we as teens or young people and become aware of the, you know, different anxieties and disorders and things like that, they start to, they start to see normal anxieties as like a disorder or something like that. And I think that there, the awareness goes kind of both ways in some ways that that it can help people. Oh, I'm having this thing and other people deal with it. And I can say, oh, you know, maybe pathology, you know, maybe I need to, I'm, I have something wrong with me that requires more than, you know, is more, this is more than a normal anxiety and things like that. So like, I feel like there's just a lot more awareness. Sometimes I also think that as parents, we're really worried about our kids having freakouts or being upset or having upset feelings in, in, in all the different forms they take. And we- I don't know, maybe it's this pie in the sky idea that we have that we think that if we just parent the right way, our kids won't have these things. Are you encountering this kind of thing?
[00:22:15] Carla Naumburg, PhD: Oh my gosh, Hunter, you just said like 10 million brilliant thoughts all at once and my head was kind of exploding because I was thinking about everything so hard. Yes, everything you said is true, so let me see if I can remember all of it and react to all of it because it is so Like so many important thoughts.
First of all, yes, we have, it seems like kids are freaking out more and I, but I don't, and let's not confuse freaking out, which is like this moment of losing it, right? Behaviorally, with our feelings, with our thoughts, with our bodily sensations, with our body. Behaviors, and also feeling stressed and anxious all the time, right? Because I think those are related, but they're two different things. I do think everyone is much more aware of this stuff for a variety of reasons. One is, like, the internet exists, so there's just so much more information in the world. Right? Articles and podcasts. Podcasts didn't used to exist. Like, the only place we got our news was the 6 o'clock news. Right? And they weren't talking about kids with anxiety because there were a million other things to cover. So there's just a lot more information in the world, which I would argue isn't always a good thing. Like, I think it is possible to have too much information. And some of that information, you were talking about kids learning about this stuff and then pathologizing normal, I'm going to say normal experiences, like experiences of flipping out, of feeling anxiety, of whatever it is that are well within the realm of what I will say is, and I don't love the word normal, but typical, reasonable human behavior, right? And perfect example of this is kids seeing. Um, ads, because even though we can fast forward through a list of ads these days, we can't fast forward through all of them, for medications for social anxiety or whatever. And kids see this and they think, oh, I feel shy going into a new situation. I must have social anxiety, right?
But the flip side of that double edged sword is I know kids who have learned about social anxiety on social media, on TV, thought really deeply about their experience and then gone to their parents and said, I think I have this. And it turns out they do. So how do we know when too much information is too much? It's a constant balance. It's constantly being aware, being in a communication. Um, the last thing you said, Hunter, was so important and my brain has already lost it, but I'm sure we were thinking about parents worrying about Yes. And freaking out. It is, yes, so we parents have somehow been told and or adopted this idea, and I'm sure I've been on this particular soapbox on this podcast earlier, but that, like, if we are good parents, then our children will be happy. And if our children aren't happy, then it's because we haven't parented them properly. This is baloney. I would use a stronger word, but no profanity, but I feel like, right, I'm doing a good job here. Um, I feel so strongly about this. So our feelings. We cannot control our feelings. We can't control other people's feelings.
We can do things that will influence our feelings. You know, I'm way less anxious and stressed out when I get a good night's sleep, right? So I can do something that will influence how I feel, but ultimately I can't control my anxiety because if I could, I wouldn't have it. You know, and the example I think I use in the book is, you know, if I- if somebody said to you as a kid, I will give you, I can't remember exactly what it was, but 10, 000 if you could just feel happy and only happy and no other feeling for five minutes. And we'll have a sensor on you in this imaginary world or whatever. We have like a sensor on you. And so we know how you are feeling and all you have to do is feel happy for five minutes and I will give you 10,000. It's not going to happen. The minute we say this, the kid is going to feel anxious about feeling happy enough, right? So, but if we could control our feelings, it would be the easiest thing in the world to do. Anybody can do anything for five minutes, right? Wrong. And so I think this narrative, like, we in the West, I don't know if this is true in other countries, I would hope it's not, I don't know, but in America, it's like happiness is the ultimate goal, and we've got self help books about how to be happier, and we've got, um, you know, college courses about happiness, and it's like the goal of everything, and if you are happy, you have reached, like, the zenith of life, of humaning, I just made up a word, humaning, that's not a word,
[00:26:38] Hunter: You're optimizing your experience.
[00:26:42] Carla Naumburg, PhD: Thank you. I love it. I'm not so interested in raising kids who are happy all the time. I mean, that would be great, but it's not possible. What I'm interested in and I know what you're interested in and what mindfulness is all about and mindful parenting is raising kids who can tolerate being unhappy, right? Who learned that it is a totally reasonable, expectable, unavoidable part of the human experience is to feel all the feelings. And some of them feel awful, but just because we feel awful doesn't mean we're doing anything wrong. It just means we feel awful. And sometimes we can figure out, like, hey, when I don't sleep, I feel terrible the next day. And sometimes we just have feelings, and we need to, like, experience them, or distract ourselves, or wait for them to pass, or share them with a friend, or whatever it is. But it doesn't mean anybody's done anything wrong. So, Hunter, everything you said, I totally agree with.
[00:27:38] Hunter: Well, thanks, and I think that parents listening, like, we have to then look at our kids feelings and just let them have their feelings, you know, and, and if you notice yourself making up a story about how it might have something to do with you, you know, this is, this kind of goes to, like, I, I put a chapter in my book, “Raising Good Humans Every Day” of what Shefali Sabari said in a talk a long time ago, which was, love more, care less, basically, which is like, love more, care about their every, like, up and down, like, a little bit less. It doesn't have to necessarily do to you. It's not with you. It's not necessarily your problem. Like, you know, Um, give them, you know, let, practice, make it a practice to let some of that go and just let it be part of their life.
[00:28:35] Carla Naumburg, PhD: And I just, you know, everything you just said about letting our kids have their feelings, love more, care less, it's all brilliant and true and so damn hard. That for me, you know, I married this amazing man who somehow does not get triggered when our kids freak out and thank God because if it wasn't for him. I feel like the whole family would just be constantly freaking out. Oh, he's like a rock. He's amazing, but tolerating my kids feelings is the work of my parenting lifetime, right? It is, I write these books and this is a practice for me every day, which it means it's a thing I try to do every single day. Because apparently our kids have feelings every day. I don't know who decided that was reasonable, but they do. And sometimes I do okay at it, and sometimes I really blow it. But I just want to say to all your listeners out there, it sounds so simple. It kind of is. It's really hard. And so if you feel like you're struggling to stay calm, Through your kids feelings, um, you're not alone at all, and, um, that's what Hunter and I and all the other people who are writing and thinking about and practicing this stuff are here for, we're just all here to remind you that we're in it together and we're all working on it together.
[00:29:53] Hunter: I love that. Yes. All right, so back to kids freaking out. I like that. You know, this is such a handbook. I wanna give it to so many kids and parents, but it, it just talks about how, you know, why do we freak out getting to know your buttons, listening to your body, um, and then you have a chapter on how to make your buttons harder to push. What are some of the things, and so it's weird because we're talking about this, we're talking to parents about this, and we know that the parents not, can't necessarily like suggest all these to their kids because then they might be resistant to some of these ideas that would make their buttons harder to push. But maybe they can just give them this book and then they, the kids can learn. But what are some of the ways that we can make kids buttons harder to push?
[00:30:44] Carla Naumburg, PhD: Yeah, so just really quickly before I answer that fabulous question, let's talk about how to give this book to your kids. Don't give it to them. Do not hand it to them. Don't be like, you need to read this. Just casually leave it on the table and then walk away. And if they ask you about it, be like, I don't know, it's just a book, whatever. And like, don't care about it, right? Love more, care less. Love this book as much as you want to. Try not, try not, as we say in mindfulness, try not to get too attached to the outcome of whether or not your kids read it. Cause. And I, look, I tried to make it as. engaging as possible. It's got adorable illustrations by Laetitia Rizzo. I'd feel like I want to name check her because she did such not some job. Yeah. Um, But please don't push this book on your kids because then I gonna want to read it. Don't just, just leave it around. Don't say anything. Okay. But let's talk about how to make your buttons harder to push. So this is a regular book. Metaphor that came up in my previous books with this idea being that we freak out when our buttons have been pushed, and we can't always control whether or not the people or experiences or situations in our lives push our buttons.
But what we can do is make our buttons more or less pushable. So, Hunter. This is when I show up with my super mature acronyms again. We're going to talk about B. U. R. P. S., which people have heard about before. And B. U. R. P. S. stands for Button Reduction Practices. And I literally have the ABCs. I have one for every single letter of the English alphabet. So it starts with Always an option. A is for always an option. You can always practice a burp, a button reduction practice. And then, you know, we've got G is for grin and giggle. Like, can you find a way to just laugh or have a smile on your face? M is for move your body. I'm jumping around. Q, this is my favorite one, quack like a duck.
And I think I've talked about clucking like a chicken before, which is something I legitimately do. When I, when I used to, sometimes still, when I am about to shout at my kids or lose it with them, or I'm mid losing it, I try to redirect my energy from screaming to like making weird noises, like clacking, clucking like a chicken, because I, I need to get this tension out of my body. My body wants to make a loud noise coming out of my mouth. So instead of screaming something mean, just make a ridiculous sound. And then it. Like, it reduces the tension, it sort of breaks up the moment, it can be kind of hilarious, and it's a good one for cue, which is a hard word to come up with stuff. Um, Ex. Exes take an x ray of your body, like check in with your body. Are you in pain? Are you tired? Does your tummy hurt? Does your head hurt? Like, is something going on? that's making your button really big and pushable in your body. So I have this whole list of burps, which are these practices that kids and adults, all of us can do, either when we feel like we're about to flip out, when we're in the middle of a freakout, that's a really hard time to do it, right? But it's possible. Or afterwards when we're trying to calm down, we can come back to these practices as a way of, you know, we can think about it as like calming down our nervous systems. But for kids I talk about, and adults, I talk about, um, making your buttons harder to push.
[00:33:54] Hunter: I like this. And parents, you'll like, um, V, Volunteer to Help Someone.
[00:33:59] Carla Naumburg, PhD: Yeah, kids are gonna love that. They're gonna jump right in. But no, see, I find that helping other people, or I guess I could have said volunteer to help someone or volunteer to pet your cat, but I think we have snuggle animals somewhere else on here. But like, just doing something for someone else and getting ourselves out of our own head. I don't know, Hunter, do you have- it totally reduces my stress, unless I'm volunteering to help my kids, in which case I'm probably annoyed, to be real, honestly.
[00:34:26] Hunter: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I agree, it definitely gets me out of my head if I have- I can walk outside and my neighbor needs help with whatever, I'll be like, yes, you know, and I'm totally taken away from all of my challenges, absolutely.
[00:34:41] Carla Naumburg, PhD: Yeah. Yeah, just a moment, but sometimes that's all it takes to calm our buttons down.
[00:34:49] Hunter: Stay tuned for more Mindful Mama podcasts right after this break.
All right. So what is, when we think about this, like, you know, for parents, you know, you can't listen to this podcast and then tell your kid what to do to do all the things. I really think this is really like, A time where you really should like, I like that advice of get the book and just kind of put it there and just ignore it and pretend, you know, whatever. I think that's really smart. But then thinking about this, maybe our kids are learning about it. Hopefully they're learning a little bit. Maybe we can, as parents, share what happens to us when we freak out and some things that we do when we freak out, right, knowing that we're always modeling, remembering those kind of things. And then, how can parents best support their kids during and then after a freak out?
[00:38:28] Carla Naumburg, PhD: Yeah, this is a great question. It's really individual and personal, and so the first thing I would say to parents is we need to model this practice ourselves, and we do that in two ways. One is using our burps, our button reduction practices to manage our own freakouts, and try to do that out loud if you can. By which I mean, I have gotten in the habit of saying to the kids, I'm going to walk in the other room and take some deep breaths so I don't lose it with you. And I'm not trying to threaten them or something. I'm just trying to say, this is what I'm doing and why I'm doing it because otherwise all they see is mom disappears for a while. Like they don't know what I'm doing, right? Um, or I'll say, I'm just going to go outside and I need to sit alone under the tree and have no one come near me for like 20 minutes because I'm overstimulated and I'm going to lose it. So I'm, and now they'll say to me like, mom, have you exercised today? Which of course. makes me want to bite their little heads off, but they're absolutely right. Like, I am way less reactive and cranky and prone to freaking out when I've exercised every day. And so they'll point that out because we've talked about it enough and I've been transparent about my process with them. So we need to manage our own freakouts, right? So many reasons. One is the more we freak out with our kids, the more we're modeling that freaking out is a thing that people do. And it is a thing that we, people do, whether we model it or not, but let's model other ways, right? So they know I freak out. They know I work hard to not freak out. And they know that I have all these coping mechanisms and skills and strategies. to make it less likely to freak out. So I'm trying to model this for them.
[00:40:10] Hunter: The other thing we need to do, and this is probably I just want to interject here that this is so beautiful and human, right? Like you're not trying to interject some idea of being perfect or that you've got it all together and that you have all the answers. And that's I couldn't do that if I wanted to. But you, a lot of people feel like you have to try to like fake this perfection and it's okay for us to be human and it's okay for us to be authentically ourselves and it's okay, and actually it's, and what I want to point out from what you said is that it's actually really helpful for your kids who are really human themselves to see you. You have a moment of struggle and freak out and then deal with it and process it in a way that's healthy. I mean, it's so much better for them to see that than to see someone who would never freaks out.
[00:40:57] Carla Naumburg, PhD: Yes. I mean, for better or for worse, my kids got a mom who has anxiety, who has big feelings that I feel all the time. A lot of feelings. Not everybody's like that. I happen to be. And who has no poker face, like zero. So even if I wanted to like somehow fake it and lie to them, I can't do it. Like I wear my heart and all my feelings on my sleeve. I have very big sleeves. It's like a thing I do. It's just, it's how I'm wired. They also got a nerdy social worker for a mom who likes to think about and write about these things all the time. So you put that together and basically I'm just social working them up all the time. Yay for them. So yeah, I do. And so through my work though, I was able to take my propensity to lose it and do a bunch of things that people can read about in my previous books to make it so that I'm losing it less, but also to really try to model and talk about with them. And they know like, we'll get in the car after an intense experience with a lot of people that I get overstimulated and I have to say, I just need to sit here with the air blowing on me. And like, Not talk to anyone. I need a few moments of quiet, and if you can't give me quiet, I'll probably lose it.
And I'm just- again, I'm not trying to threaten them, I'm just trying to describe the situation so they know that, like, I'm on the edge of a nervous breakdown. Yeah, you're being honest. You're being honest. Yes, okay. And, yes, the next step, in terms of parents supporting their kids during and after a freakout, is figuring out what we need to do to stay calm in the moment when our kid is freaking out. And that can range from if you have a parenting partner or another adult in the area with you, and if you're too triggered, that can be like, I'm tagging out, you're tagging in. I can't, I don't have this moment. And that's a totally legit thing to do. It can be like, I am just going to sit here and do whatever I can to ground myself. If your kid is safe and you're not worried about their safety, you can go in the other room, right, while they're freaking out. That's an okay thing to do. Don't worry about like, If they're safe, then you can go, right? If they're not safe, then you need to do what you can to stay present and keep them safe. And I know in some situations, what I'm saying is a very hard thing to do. I'm acknowledging that, but our goals in these moments are to keep our kids safe. And to keep ourselves, and keep ourselves safe, and keep ourselves as calm as we can. From there, if you're in a place where you are calm and your kid is safe, you can try to figure out what they need.
Ideally, you can find a time to talk to them about it in between freakouts, like when they're calm. What do you need in this moment? A kid might not know. This is a really, most adults don't know, right? This is a really hard thing to figure out, but you experiment. So over time, like for example, some kids need Physical touch. They do really well with like a strong hug or just sitting next to you on the couch. Other kids need their space. They need to be alone. Some kids need to like, really get this physical intensity out. So, Get them doing push ups, have them running around the yard, like have them shooting poops, whatever it is, turn on some music, get everybody moving and dancing, like whatever you need to do, give them a glass of water, other kids, you know, maybe just want to like take a marker, like I remember my daughter being really little and she was so mad and I gave her a marker and she just like scribbled these angry streaks across the paper, and it was great, it was a way for her to get that out, and so, you know, um, You'll figure it out over time, and the trick is to notice, right? Stay calm enough that you can turn on your prefrontal cortex, that you're in your noticing mode. And you can kind of notice what's working, what's not, and take your best guess at what your kid needs. You're going to get it wrong sometimes. That's okay. That's not bad parenting. That's you just showing up and doing the best you can. So over time, for example, I've noticed that one of my kids, in that moment, she just needs me to stay as calm as I can, which is incredibly hard. Um, And for her to like, get it all out and say what she needs to say and just get all her feelings out and kind of let the energy drain out of the moment. And if I get reactive at all, by which I mean if I even raise my eyebrow the wrong way, it just adds more fuel to the fire and she gets madder.
I'm just learning and it's an ongoing practice to just sit and breathe and Show up with a calm presence for her, and she'll move through the moment. The other kid, when she freaks out, it's because she's tired or hungry. Really, that's it. And so, either I feed her, or I just basically support her through the rest of the day until it's bedtime. And there have been multiple nights when I've said to her, kiddo, the only thing that is gonna get you out of this moment of like, tearful, sobbing, everything is terrible, my life is a mess, I have no friends, I can't do these things, all of these like, Freak out lies, right? She's flipping out is what she's doing in this moment. All of these lies that her tired brain is telling her. And I just say to her, nothing is going to get better until you sleep. I will stay with her. And sometimes I can physically calm her. And sometimes I literally say, You just need to cry yourself to sleep and that's an okay thing to do. Like there's nothing wrong with crying yourself to sleep and when you wake up in the morning you feel better and if you don't feel better we'll talk about these things and we'll sort them out but there's no point in talking about them when you're this tired. And then sometimes she just cries herself to sleep because I can't calm her down and that's all she needs. So, but you know, it's taken a long time for me to figure these things out about my kids. And now that I've figured them out, they will undoubtedly change. And next week I'll be like, Hunter doesn't work anymore. I don't know what's going on because our kids grow and change.
[00:46:28] Hunter: Yeah. But I think what you described as far as like, if you're able to be present, if you're able to kind of like bring a sense of calm, you know, I always think, think about that. I mean, the. The, uh, the metaphor that Thich Nhat Hanh always used was, in these, like, refugee boats leaving, that there would be, if there was one person who could be calm, like, then other people can kind of, you, you feel each other's feelings and you can, you know, expend that energy. And I always thought, oh my god, there's so much pressure on that one person. I mean, there's, there's the wisdom to be gotten there, which is like, yeah, like, let's practice as, as best we can to be calm. But I love that your first, you know, you first mentioned like, yes, you can tag out, you can get out of there if that's like so much better is to, to remove yourself than to scream or whatever, you know?
[00:47:22] Carla Naumburg, PhD: And yes, and there are moments. Where I can't do it, cause maybe we've all been through a stressful situation and we're all triggered and upset and freaking out together and then I got nothing and my husband can often handle it beautifully, thank God for him. But he's not always here and, um, or whatever it is and there are times when I just need to remove myself from the situation because I'm just going to show up with like a negative freak out energy that's only going to make things worse, right? And this is not bad parenting. Let me be very clear to parents. When we are making choices to keep ourselves calm and take care of ourselves so that we can show up for our kids in a more present and attuned way later, that's a great parenting move.
[00:48:12] Hunter: Yes. Yes. I couldn't agree more, Carla. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Look at us!
[00:48:21] Carla Naumburg, PhD: Just talking about all this stuff.
[00:48:22] Hunter: Oh my God. Well, this is such a great book. I love it. I'm so glad we could talk about it and share it with people. And, um, I think it's awesome. And that's all I got for you, Carla. That's all I wanted to talk about was the, this book. And I'll ask you all of my questions, burning questions about you and how you're doing in your life before and after.
[00:48:41] Carla Naumburg, PhD: I've been a high schooler, so if I seem kind of crazy, that's why. I'm a high schooler, so if I seem kind of crazy, that's why. I know I officially have two high schoolers. How did this happen? I, I mean, I, yes. And Hunter, I just want to say, I'm so grateful to be here on your podcast. I'm grateful for all the ongoing work you're doing to support parents because I do feel like there are all, there's a lot of sort of insidious information being shared out there that I think is being shared with the best of intentions. It actually undermines parents, and I'm so glad that you roll in here with your voice of reason and sanity, and, and to be clear, I said and sanity, not reason in sanity. Um, so thank you for having me back on and for sharing this book, um, with, with your amazing audience. And
[00:49:23] Hunter: Thank you. Thank you, Carla. Thank you for coming. Thank you for writing these super cool books. And I love that you put yourself in the perspective of the kid. I mean, I think that your high sensitivity is a super gift that has really benefited all of us. in the world, for sure. Definitely. Even if you don't like your kids.
[00:49:46] Carla Naumburg, PhD: My kids won't read this. No, I just love that you frame this as my high sensitivity and not my, like, juvenile sense of humor.
[00:49:54] Hunter: But it's such a great combination of high sensitivity and juvenile sense of humor. It really, like, has come together perfectly in this book. It's, it's, it's very good. Um, and of course, thank you for coming on the podcast again. I'm so glad to have you back. Anytime, lady.
[00:50:11] Carla Naumburg, PhD: Thank you. I'm so glad to be here. And, again, thanks for all the work you do. And I'm just going to put a little plug if listeners would like to check out this book, How to Stop Freaking Out. It's this beautiful hardcover, full color, super illustrated, lots of quizzes and fun facts for the kids. And they can visit my website, CarlaNaumberg.com, or, pre-order from your local favorite independent bookseller or any of the online booksellers as well. Awesome.
[00:50:40] Hunter: Perfect. You, yes. Get your copy. You won't regret it. Thank you, Carla. So good to talk to you.
Hey, I hope you appreciated this episode. This is such a great book. I really, really think it's a must have book. Seriously, just like nonchalantly drop it, how to stop freaking out on the coffee table, and walk away. I think that's the way to go, for sure. I love that we had talked about that. Anyway, I hope you found this helpful, hoped it was, hope it was interesting for you.
We've got so many more episodes coming your way, um, and yeah, thank you for being here. Thank you for being part of the Mindful Parenting podcast community. It’s just great that we get to connect every week, and I hope it's supporting you, and I hope you tell a friend about it. And it’s interesting being a small business, family run podcast business here and just competing now with all of these big celebs doing podcasts and things like that. And I love those podcasts. They're great, but it's really, really means a lot. All the world, when you help out the little guy, so tell a friend about the Mindful Parenting podcast and how much it's helped you if it has. And I'm wishing you a great week, my friend. I hope you wish you all the best and I hope you have a great day. Lots of non-freak out moments, and I hope you feel prepared, ready to go for those freak out moments when they do happen, because that's life. All right, that's all I got for you today, my friend. Thank you again for listening. Namaste.
[00:52:38] Mindful Mama Member: I'd say definitely do it. It's really helpful. It will change your relationship with your kids for the better. It will help you communicate better. And just, I'd say communicate better as a person, as a wife, as a spouse. It's been really a positive influence in our lives, so definitely do it. I'd say definitely do it. It's so worth it. The money really is inconsequential when you get so much benefit from being a better parent to your children and feeling like you're connecting more with them and not feeling like you're yelling all the time or you're like, why isn't things working? I would say definitely do it. It's so, so worth it. It'll change you. No matter what age someone's child is, it's a great opportunity for personal growth and it's a great investment in someone's life. I'm very thankful I have this. You can continue in your old habits that aren't working, or you can learn some new tools and gain some perspective to shift everything in your parenting.
[00:53:42] Hunter: Are you frustrated by parenting? Do you listen to the experts and try all the tips and strategies, but you're just not seeing the results that you want? Or are you lost as to where to start? Does it all seem so overwhelming with too much to learn? Are you yearning for community people who get it, who also don't want to threaten and punish to create cooperation?
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[00:55:34] Mindful Mama Member: Hunter's program that really drew me in was that it wasn't just on like, how do we practice mindfulness? It incorporated the communication and the problem solving and you know, went a lot deeper. It was really, really amazing to be going through this process and have that like weekly support that extended beyond just our teacher training really. The whole process was really well laid out and organized and having the materials from a teacher perspective was really nice as well. The course is so thorough, like you're given every single bit of material that you could possibly need.
[00:56:07] Mindful Mama Member: This is really a community reaching far and wide. And I think that this program, because it works on decreasing your inner stress response and taking care of yourself, so then you can give that back to your children and model that behavior for your children as they're growing up into adulthood. You know, just seeing the positive changes in my own family and knowing that like, as I continue to spread that into the community, that will be like, just even more far reaching.
[00:56:35] Hunter: Enrollment is open now and there are limited spots available. Step into your dream of becoming a Mindful Parenting coach. Find out more at mindfulparentingcourse.com/teach. That's mindfulparentingcourse.com/teach.
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