Jess Trayser is a mental health expert that specializes in the "nothing else has worked" category of parenting, bringing more peace and connection to Exclamation Point Kids and their families. 



      

527: Exclamation Point Kids

Jess Trayser

Do you have a kid who experiences emotions and behaviors intensely? In this conversation, Jess Trayser and Hunter Clarke-Fields explore the complexities of parenting children who have intense emotions and behaviors. We discuss the importance of understanding these children's experiences, the need for validation and empathy, and the challenges parents face when our own triggers are activated. Learn how to navigate this rocky emotional landscape while fostering a supportive environment.

 

Ep 527-Jess Trayser

Read the Transcript 🡮

*This is an auto-generated transcript*

[00:00:00] Jess Trayser: It's not really about us. It's not in reaction to us. They're not trying to give us a hard time. But truly their body is just saying, maps out, there's a lot of things underneath here that I am taking care of that you have no idea about because you can't see it. But it's very real.

[00:00:19] Hunter: You're listening to the Mindful Mama podcast, episode #527. Today, we're talking about “Exclamation Point Kids” with Jess Trayser as part of our “Different Brains, Amazing Kids” Series #3.

Welcome to the Mindful Mama podcast. Here it's about becoming a less irritable, more joyful parent. At Mindful Mama, we know that you cannot give what you do not have, and when you have calm and peace within, then you can give it to your children. I'm your host, Hunter Clarke-Field. I help smart, thoughtful parents stay calm so they can have strong, connected relationships with their children. I've been practicing mindfulness for over 25 years. I'm the creator of the Mindful Parenting course and teacher training, and I'm the author of the international bestseller “Raising Good Humans Every Day”, and the “Raising Good Humans Guided Journal”.

Are you passionate about parenting and maybe want to become a parenting coach? Perhaps you're a teacher, a therapist, doula, or simply a parenting junkie. Then let me tell you about the Mindful Parenting Teacher and Coach Training Program. It's a five month intensive program that can be done from anywhere around the world and gives you everything you need to bring mindful parenting to the people in your life.

Here's what people have said about it.

[00:01:42] Mindful Mama Alum: Hunter's program that really drew me in was That it wasn't just on like, how do we practice mindfulness? It incorporated the communication and the problem solving and, went a lot deeper. It was really amazing to be going through this process and have that like weekly support that extended beyond just our teacher training. Really, it's the whole process was really well laid out and organized and having the materials from a teacher perspective was really nice as well. You're given every single bit of material that you could possibly need. This is really a community, reaching far and wide. And I think that this program, because it works on decreasing your inner stress response and taking care of yourself, so then you can give that back to your children and model that behavior for your children as they're growing up into adulthood.

Just seeing the positive changes in my own family and knowing that as I continue to spread that into the community, that will be like just even more far reaching.

[00:02:41] Hunter: Enrollment is open now and there are limited spots available. Step into your dream of becoming a mindful parenting coach. Find out more at mindfulparentingcourse.com/teach. That's mindfulparentingcourse.com/teach.

Hi and welcome back to I'm so glad you're here and a big welcome, of course, if you are new, today is the third part in our “Different Brains, Amazing Kids” Series. And I'm going to be talking to Jess Trayser, a mental health expert that specializes in the nothing else has worked category of parenting, bringing more peace and connection to exclamation point kids and their families So if you have a kid who experiences emotions and behavior is intensely. This is an episode for you. We're going to explore the complexities of parenting children who have these intense emotions and behaviors. We'll discuss the importance of understanding these children's experiences, the need for validation and empathy, and the challenges that parents face when our own triggers are activated.

There's so much in here. I know you're gonna love this episode. This is part of the “Different Brains, Amazing Kids” series that we have been doing last week. Check out “When Your Kid Has Autism” with Kari Baker. And then, of course, “Misconceptions About ADHD Kids” with Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart. Those are episodes #525 #526.

So those are all there. All right, join me at the table as I talk to Jess Trayser:

Jess, I'm so glad you're here. Thank you. I'm really glad to be here. Good. Alright. You talk about and I love the way you put it. I think it's such a great way of putting it. Exclamation point kids. Yes. What does that mean? What is

[00:04:47] Jess Trayser: an exclamation point kid? Yeah. Exclamation point kids are our kids and our teens who have big feelings and big behaviors.

I use the terminology because I feel like, and parents that I work with have really responded to it, it encapsulates the fact that it's not selective emotions or behaviors that our kids experience. It's really all of them, the full gamut, right? So these kids that have bigger feelings and have bigger behaviors, it's as though they go from zero to a hundred.

And it's not that they're just sad, they're devastated, right? It's not that they're a little hesitant, they're resistant. But it's also not that they just like something, they love it. That they're not just a little bit happy, they are joyful. And it's looking at the full spectrum of emotions for our kids, and not, knowing that it's not just like one particular one that we see a lot of.

But, often with our exclamation point kids, there are some standout emotions that kind of take the front stage. That it becomes a little bit more explosive or a little bit more difficult or challenging to be able to experience or to manage. And so that's where Exclamation Point Kids comes from, is they live big.

These are our kids that they just feel it all in really big ways.

[00:06:03] Hunter: That really sounds like a lot. a me. I was definitely that kid. And also my daughter. And for me, I've thought of us as just highly sensitive, right? Like just, I like feel everything intensely. This is why I'm so I need mindfulness so much in my life.

And my daughter, of course, feels everything so intensely. And yeah, it's just Exclamation point is is a great term for it. Is this, are these, any of I know you have three boys, are these any of your boys? Are they?

[00:06:35] Jess Trayser: Yes. So I would say I'm glad you say that it sounds like the highly sensitive because that's another term for the same group.

of children. Highly sensitive, deeply feeling, explosive child, orchid child. There's so many ways to phrase this. We're all talking about the same population of kids. And I'm a highly sensitive person too. And it's hereditary. So yes, one of my three boys would qualify as an exclamation point kid. And I have always said he was actually what made me think of the term because as soon as he was born, it's like life got vivid.

Everything was pretty much calm and go with the flow. And then he came and it's not that it's just, again, like those more difficult emotions and behaviors, but it's also the really beautiful emotions and behaviors that came out. And I was like, oh, there's no, it's highlighted. It's exclamation point.

It's a vivid experience. So yeah I work with families that have one or more! kids, along with living it out myself.

[00:07:35] Hunter: Yeah. Did you end up did you end up ever apologizing to your parents once you realized what it was like to live with someone like you? That I did?

[00:07:46] Jess Trayser: Yeah, I think, it gave us.

This is what's really beautiful about my parents at this point in our relationship is from the work that I've done and the way that I've talked about kids and everything that has occurred since. They've learned a lot about who I was as a kid. And so it's like we got to go back to that stage of development and have both of us- both sides- have a better understanding of what was going on underneath all of those behaviors and what it looked like on the surface. So I think that's really beautiful. And goes to a lot of what I talk about with parents is that, It's never too late to go back, to make amends, to apologize to heal. We can always have that opportunity in front of us. And I've thankfully been able to live that out. So I could heal things for them as being a parent to me and vice versa, right? That they have this understanding of what was going on under the surface.

[00:08:38] Hunter: Yeah, they're, these kids are, they make you live more intensely and more, and they trigger so much.

And yes, I imagine for all of us who have exclamation point kids, we do have things to go back and apologize for. I had things to go back and apologize for sure. I wish my dad would make, but that's a whole other story, that's a different thing. Yeah. Okay. So what is happening under the surface? You mentioned that a few times.

What is happening under the surface for these intense behaviors?

[00:09:12] Jess Trayser: There's been so much work done on research on the highly sensitive or the dandelion. Dr. Boyce wrote the Orchid and the Dandelion Child and talks about how about 20 percent of the population It's more biologically reactive to novelty and perceived threat.

So this is a body up biological response that occurs and is not purposefully or willfully done by the child or by the adult or whoever has this trait and this propensity. And so underneath the surface, there is this really beautiful, highly attuned nervous system that is taking in so much information, more than the other 80 percent, the majority of the population, taking it all in and then processing it at a deeper level.

And the purpose of that is to take care of full species, full population, to make sure that we are always aware, or at least 20 percent of our population, is on alert to watch for any potential threat to save the whole. And so they're like the canary in the coal mine, right? They're the first to perceive potential threat, and they can't help but yell it out and be the warning sign.

And so when we think about what a gift this is, not only to them, but to us all as humans. We can also think about when we're talking about a five year old who has high sensitivity, how challenging and overwhelming and flooding that gift is in that raw stage, right? And because you're claiming this for your own experience.

We can't be selective, we can't turn it on and off, it is always there, right? And so a lot of times the goodness is seen of that, but that under the surface piece, people aren't always noticing or aware of, but we are experiencing that all of the time. And so for our kids. That is a lot of new data coming in, and that nervous system then gets crammed with that new information.

And when there's too much and not enough downtime to regulate and to make sense of the information, that's when we're going to go into fight or flight. And so all of these big emotions and big behaviors. are the dysregulation, the fight, flight, freeze response, right? And they're going to go into that place more often than the other majority, 80 percent of our kids.

All kids experience this, right? They all have tantrums and meltdowns and upsets. And they should. It's a healthy part of development. But the work that I do with kids, it's usually parents coming and saying but my kids do this more. My kids, it lasts longer. My kids, it seems to be anything can trip this off.

Like we never know. It's the walking on eggshells experience, right? We're just never sure. The ticking time bomb. The ticking time bomb. Huh. And so it's really helpful because that truly is challenging, whether you're working with these kids or parenting these kids, to feel like you're walking on eggshells, to feel like any little thing could just set off the rest of the day, or the rest of the family.

That's truly a challenge. But to understand that underneath that behavior, there's neurological wiring, that this is a gift over time that will be used for the goodness of themselves and others. It helps us to be able to manage that then in real time and to depersonalize it, right? That it's not really about us.

It's not in reaction to us. They're not trying to give us a hard time. But truly their body is just saying, maps out, there's a lot of things underneath here that I am taking care of that you have no idea about because you can't see it. But it's very real and I have had enough. Yeah, that's a good portion of what's happening underneath

[00:12:59] Hunter: this all, I can relate to all of this so much I wanted my oldest child to be you know, I wanted her to be able to take her to a folk festival and just carry her around and let her fall asleep forever I tend to, all these different things, and it was like, and if I just do these things from the beginning, she'll be used to it, and it'll be fine, and kids just can sleep anywhere, right?

Yeah, no way, Jose! Five different trigger points for her I, I don't, yeah, and the overstimulation, I quickly realized I realize, of course, a I had to calm my stress response. I had to work on that enormously. And I had to work on myself to be less reactive to her.

That was of course, the number one thing, but another piece of it. And of course that goes into of course that goes in raising good humans and things like that, but another piece of it. That you're mentioning here this like idea of not enough downtime and this idea of time to process it because they yes you know was looking at simplifying and Having rhythms and routines and having less stuff And yeah having our schedule not so packed and all of these things were incredibly important like when I and this went into, for the listener, it's in “Raising Good Humans”, you can find it there in Chapter 8, but I read a lot of it was inspired, I was inspired by Simplicity Parenting, and I really recommend everybody Kim John Payne! Yeah! Read that! It's so good, but I remember the time I, when she was two years old, and she was at her Montessori program. And I totally decluttered her room and took out 70 percent of the toys and the stuff and I was so scared that she was gonna freak out. Yep. I took her home, I was all nervous, and she was like, Oh my god, and she played for three hours by herself. She was thrilled. It was amazing. Yeah, I can really relate to the idea that. Hey, like there's all this stuff we can do with ourselves, but also that, that need for space and time to process being so important for these kids.

Stay tuned for more mindful mama podcast right after this break.

[00:15:51] Jess Trayser: Yeah, absolutely. If we're going back to the fact that this is biological reactivity, it's a novelty and perceived threat. When you're a child, everything's new. Almost everything in life is new, and so that is a constant bombardment of new data to be processing to determine, is this a threat or is this safe?

And so even more than us as adults who have high sensitivity, we know we need our downtime, right? And we utilize that when we can, but we also have scripts and schemas for how the world operates and what we can expect out of it. And we don't have to be as on alert in those situations, but for kids, it is almost constantly new.

They're always learning and they care so deeply about being good and about doing it right. That can really freeze you if you're taking all that in. So that novelty piece and the other is perceived threat, not actual threat, but subjectively what we feel could be threatening and not even intentionally.

But our body responding to it. And when we pull those things together, we can have a deep understanding why their system might need more respite put in their day. And that respite looks like everything you're talking about. And I'm glad you brought up Simplicity Parenting because it's like a number one book I recommend.

It's not written specifically for highly sensitive children or exclamation point children, but it is so good for them. It feels like that is such a population that benefits from his work. on watching those areas of stimulation that we don't even think about that are constantly present in our children's lives.

And so if we can carve out space that is consistent, dependable, predictable, and less overwhelming, that's going to give our kids a little bit of an anchor to set themselves down and breathe before they move into the next thing that is new and that is stimulating and that could be potentially overwhelming.

[00:17:44] Hunter: So if I'm a parent listening to this, I'm thinking. Look at my schedule, right? Look at your schedule and say, is there predictability? Is there, is there predictable rhythm like we did, weekly meal nights? Is there space? Is there space for downtime for decompression? If there are back to back activities, this is really, there's not going to be that space for.

An exclamation point kid to process everything, right? So is there that space and time to process things? That's what those are some of the things I'm looking for here. Yes.

[00:18:18] Jess Trayser: Yeah. And when we're looking at that, everything that I do with my work with parents, it's making sure it's manageable and accessible per family.

And for some of us, we can't make those big overhauls in our schedule, and that's perfectly okay and acceptable. We're not looking to all be the same family, right? It's making it work for what we have and what we're aiming to do. And let's say that we have, that our exclamation point kid is the youngest of five.

And those four older siblings are going to be full schedule. And so that exclamation point child who is the youngest is working to keep up, cares a lot about it, but also gets super overwhelmed by the fun things. Now, in that family setting, you might not be able or want to eliminate the schedule of your older kids to make those accommodations for the younger.

But what you can do is look at the schedule that you already have. And see what types of pauses you can put in around the day that can be consistent in a chaotic schedule. And those are actually, I call it, putting down anchors and having something that is routine and consistent for your kids that they can rely on as simple as before we leave the house, because maybe a different person takes you to school every day and we can't be consistent there, but before we leave the house.

We give a squeezy hug, and we fill you all the way up to the top, and we kiss you on the top of your head, and we do that every day, no matter what. As an example, some kids do not want to be touched, so don't do that with a bad child. But this is just as an example of, you can make anything be consistent for your family as long as it makes sense for you.

You can use the time in the car to make sure there are no devices on. And that it could just be a quiet time. There doesn't have to be an agenda in that car ride of making sure that we're talking about the to do list or I'm asking you these questions, but we can silently have the experience of riding in a vehicle and looking out the window together in the 10 minute ride that we have to go pick up the older sister.

And consistently we're going to do that and just be present with one another. It's finding kind of those micro, changes within the existing schedule.

[00:20:32] Hunter: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, when I often, when I get in the car, as I am a sensitive person, I sit and we're all, we have, like this morning, we all were like, okay, we're getting in the car, we're going to this thing.

And it's okay, I sit and I take three deep breaths. And my kids are like, eye rolling me. But whatever, it's yeah, okay, now I'm here. I am Yeah, in the transition, I'm taking this next thing. So with our highly, with our exclamation point kids, they're having big behaviors. What are some of the best ways for parents to respond to the big disruptive behaviors?

[00:21:11] Jess Trayser: Yes, it's a good question. And like the number one question, right? It's because these are really large and challenging. It can be really complicated to know how to respond in a moment like that. In taking it apart a little bit, there's, there are two parts that I typically work on with families in response to what's going on and the problematic behaviors that they're experiencing.

And one is creating a response plan to the, in the moment that you're talking about. But another crucial piece of this is having a preventative plan. And that goes along with what we were just discussing. Being aware of what could be overstimulating or overwhelming our child. or because they're the canary in the coal mine, what are they alerting us to?

What do we need to take a look at that maybe doesn't have to do with them, but maybe they are aware of in the environment or in the family system. So that's a separate thing, which I'll put to the side for a second. But in the moment for that response plan, the biggest thing that we can do is believe them.

When we come into responding to our child and their big feeling or their big behavior, we come in with validation and containment. That's like our one, two, response. And that validation is, I believe that what you're experiencing is real. And even if we did nothing else, even if we don't even see it.

say that, but we embody that presence of, I believe you. Because what these kids do experience over and over again is, I'm too sensitive. I'm too big. I'm too much. This is too scary, right? I will be rejected from this. Nobody likes me. I am bad. I'm not good enough. They're all these kinds of phrases and things that they are experiencing in that moment.

And so we can come into it as often as we can. With the presence of I believe you that this is real and this is hard that helps to then bring us into the experience with them so that they're not feeling isolated and that reduces tension pretty quickly and it changes things for us if we can we can't always it's not always the expectation, but if we can shift our mindset over into Thank you.

Okay, I am triggered, right? This is really hard. But right now, it's not really about me, my kid, their body, this body up experience is showing me they are going through something authentically hard. And I just need them to know that they are seen in that. And so that validation might be as simple as Oh, I see this has been really hard for you.

This seems like it's challenging. There's something tricky about this. Something about this isn't quite going how you wanted it to go. That's actually a really big thing for our exclamation point kids. It's one of the trigger points. It's not going what, how they expected it to go. Oh, I, I know it. I know, still, at 17 years old, it is still a thing.

Yes. And, not to fully sidetrack here, but that, if we go under the behavior, We can make sense of it because our exclamation point kids are such deep thinkers and they're such processors that they already create full stories, full characters, full ideas and ideals, and they attach strongly to those.

And so they always have a plan. Lexi's definitely good at that, right? And oftentimes it's not articulated, it's not communicated. They're not even necessarily aware that plan existed, but their brain's already taken care of it. And in part, because that makes it predictable.

If our brain can lay out, this is the thing that's going to happen, we can relax here because as long as it follows that narrative, it's predictable, it is safe.

So all that then makes sense that across the board, this is a very common thing for exclamation point kids when things don't go the way that they had hoped. It can lead to a total like, I lost all sense of self and hope, right? So it's a really triggering experience for them. Yeah. And there's all that can happen of, they just want it their way.

They're just hard headed, right? And it totally, it makes sense because on the surface, that's what it looks like. But this is to help us understand what's operating underneath, what's occurring for them, what is their true experience. Yeah. And so we can see that and have that validation of this is real and this is true.

And if you imagine so deeply that you were going to go to your friend's house. We never even talked about going to your friend's house. And you can go to your friend's house tomorrow, but right now I said we couldn't. And it just like destroyed you, right? Like logically, we get all this, but we're not speaking all this to them.

I understand that you really deeply imagined going to your friend's house and that was feeling so good to you. And it's really hard that it feels like that's now taken away. It's just the validating it.

[00:25:55] Hunter: It's so crazy, because this explains so much. Even my brother was like, It's You need to get your way, you needed to get your way with your love.

And my, I can see it with my exclamation point kid's sister. Her feeling that about her sister Oh, God, she needs to have it. And I've had that thought about my daughter Oh, gosh, gotta be your way. You know what I mean? And that and but it's that makes so much sense to just that it's about this prediction and predicting when if you can predict and expect something to go a certain way, it's a sense of safety.

Yeah, and yeah, that's those are the hardest things for her when things don't go the way she expected. And yeah, of course, that's hard for everybody. But that is really hard. And but this is An incredibly, an incredible insight into underneath the behavior that can just help us understand and then you're saying, respond with presence respond.

Yes. Empathy. Yes. I believe you. Yes. And that can be so hard for us. We have may have habit of, a parent saying things to us. Yes. You don't always get your way, or, whatever our parents might have said to us and so those scripts run through our heads, so to put a new script in our, in, instead of, I believe you, it can take some time, it can take some practice, I imagine.

Oh, absolutely.

[00:27:20] Jess Trayser: And, that goes into a whole other talk we could have another time if you wanted to, but when we have that, where something wasn't allowed for us to experience or express as, We were in our childhood. It can make it a triggering point when our kids do express like I am so upset that my plan didn't happen.

But me as a child, I was told that, all it can help. You can't always get what you want. And this is really selfish. And, if that was freezing around it. Then when my kid, any kid, but it's bigger when it's exclamation point kids when they have big responses to It can then trigger that response in me of this is a dangerous situation.

I need to put it out, right? I need to extinguish the behavior And so then is incredibly challenging in the parrot role to try to bring that down because we're also humans And we also have body up responses that are not willful That are not purposeful or intentional on our part. And it does take work mostly outside of the moment first to be able to respond more intentionally in the moment when there is triggering.

And so this is where conversations like this can be helpful outside of the moment to have us think about and talk about what could be really happening for our child. And can we start to practice that they have a different experience than we have at the same time. And that both are true and one doesn't cancel out or make less of the other right and so maybe I wouldn't be upset by the situation and it's very hard because.

Logically, this type of response seems like such an overshoot for what the situation is, and so it can be really hard because I suddenly want to talk them out of it, but I can feel like this isn't a big deal to me, while simultaneously, they can feel like this is huge and earth shattering and I don't know what to do with myself, and both are true experiences, and to make some space and have some comfort with that can allow us To have our own, but then still validate theirs.

[00:29:20] Hunter: Yeah. I see you. I see you is it just takes the temperature down enormously to set, to be like, okay, you see me, you understand what I'm going through. Whoo, this has to be a strategy that we use with our Exclamation Point kids a lot, right? It's the, okay, this is really hard for you. I see, I see that, and it's real.

This is real. And simultaneously, we have to take care of our own stuff, so sometimes it's sometimes it's you're having a hard time. I need a second minute to yes. Okay. All right. I'm breathing. I'm lowering it down. I'm doing the deep breath. I'm remembering to to see them and believe them and then use your brain to say, okay, all right.

I can believe them. They're not just, okay. The, that's the thing that it can be hard for us to understand. We were told the story that kids are manipulating us and that's simply, you're saying that's not true. It's not

[00:30:23] Jess Trayser: true. Absolutely. There's not a situation where I find that true with kids.

Like I've never come up against that. Their body is doing the best it can to make it through a situation to survive. And so whatever it needs to do that's what's occurring. And it's not about doing something to us, the adults. It's about taking care of themselves. And you're hitting on, Hunter, something really important that I wanted to talk about with this response plan, right?

So the response plan in the moment is validation first. This other piece of it, though, is containment, but I'll come back to that in a second. But all of this we can only do with the awareness of ourselves because this is important for all of our kids. But our exclamation point kids, again, take in more data.

They are forests to social emotional hues. They are so They feel your feelings. They feel what you're feeling. Which is so dangerous. They feel it. Yes. And we could say all the right things, but if we aren't authentically feeling those things Oh, I see. I throw It is going to make Yes. And it's going to light the fire, and it's going to make everything worse.

And this is the piece Of what I work through a lot with families that are so intentional in their parenting and they are working so hard, Hunter, like they are working so hard at it and doing a beautiful job. But they're like, why, when I try doing it, does it just fuel the flame? Like, why does it get worse?

Why do they then start punching me and biting me or screaming cuss words at me? This doesn't make sense. And it's because there is this mismatch, right? And for us to have the awareness and compassion toward ourselves. That we are also humans. And so to just be able to do a body scan and see, do I have it in me?

Can I fill myself up and get there? Or are we going to survive right now? And that's okay because I don't have to do it perfectly 100 percent of the time. But to have that reflective part first, and it honestly can take all of five seconds, right? To just scan your body, see where you're at. Do we do? And we have it in us to do everything you just said.

Layed out there hunter all those great things this mindfulness piece of re centering ourselves to be able to approach Do we have that and then can we do it because if we? Soften our gaze and lower our shoulders and lower the volume of our voice and get under eye contact from them Those are all the cues Biologically that we are safe and we are not a threat, but if we say all the right things like I believe you intensely Their bodies know what's up, and it's even more upsetting to have a mismatch from the visual cues to the verbal cues.

[00:33:07] Hunter: Stay tuned for more Mindful Mama podcasts right after this break.

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[00:33:44] Jess Trayser: Okay, so that's where all that spiraling comes in, so It's this one two approach of it's validation, it's containment, but all of it is embodied with our true, authentic presence. And being okay that if we can't get there right then, it's never too late to come back and make amends. We can always come back and repair later when we are centered.

And there's still a lot of truth and beauty

[00:34:05] Hunter: in that. And we can try to, sometimes, Yeah, like I think it's so much better to be able to take a minute to just get in your own body and center. That is ultimately the best. But then also our kids can, when we're being authentic they respond to that so well.

Like I remember With my intense kid a time when maybe she was a little older, maybe she was 11 or 12 and she was upset about something and we were in the car and it was like like a demanding in your face kind of moment. Yes, and I was like practicing to reflectively listen to her and she's you don't even sound like you mean that and I was like, I know because I'm trying not to yell right now because that is what.

I really don't want to do that, but that is what, is happening, and I really don't want to do that. So this is why I sound the way I sound, like this like weird, whatever. I sounded authentic because I was right. Half my body was like, losing it, but I was containing it in myself.

But then I expressed to her how that I was containing into the, I was just really honest with her. And she was like, yes, oh, like I, she understood. And it was like this moment of I see you as a person, not as a role that we just chilled, for a little while in the ride before we address the thing.

But it was so helpful to just be honest with her and say that in that moment. Oh, absolutely.

[00:35:34] Jess Trayser: And they crave honesty. Again, we all do, but because they feel what's honest underneath, if we are giving them something different than that, what they're feeling, it's incredibly uncomfortable. And it can cause an anger reaction to it.

And so you did the validating. You were doing your process in that moment and like working those, the scripts and you're like, I'm doing this because it's better than what could be happening or what has happened or what my body wants to do. So that's a great move, right? And this is progress and we don't have to be perfect.

But then there was this. extra healing element of when she, maybe not politely or gently, pointed out to you Hey, Mom, there's a mismatch. Between your tone of voice and the words you are saying it's not how she phrased it, but that was the truth, and she was correct, and so it is that piece again of yeah, I believe you, your experience is real, and for you to be able to tell her that was like, oh, immediate relief, and connection, and so it's, I love that example, that's exactly the kinds of things That if we, and what you did, you believed her and her experience, and the thing is, she was right, she was right about it. She

[00:36:50] Hunter: was spot on. Yeah, there's so much, there's all this, obviously our exclamation point kids, they need us. They're a challenge that, they're a challenge for us to step up in really deeply taking care of ourselves, allowing space for both ourselves and our kids to, Anchor, as you put it.

I love that. Language. All of these things. There's so much here. But before we, I know we can't talk about explanation. We've had kids for hours and hours, but before one of the things I think that's important to have in this conversation is our extended families. Yes. So we have. These intense kids and our extended families often don't understand how to deal with These intense kids and they want to shut it down the way they did maybe for us Yeah, so how can parents help extended families understand and deal with these kids besides Dear Lister, tell them to listen to this podcast, obviously, but what else?

[00:37:56] Jess Trayser: Haven't they already tell them? I like you're bestie. I would just here you go. Bye. Yeah, it's a good question. And it's so funny, Hunter, because this is one that gets brought up often and makes a lot of sense because some of this is generational change and wanting to do something different than what's happened before.

And then trying to bridge that and bring it back to allow previous generations to have this new information that just wasn't there at that time. And it can be a hard and challenging conversation. I think the first step in it is actually having confidence yourself in who your child is, and in owning any of the terminology that's available when we describe these children.

If it's exclamation point, child. If it's a deeply feeling child, if it's a highly sensitive child, whatever it is where you feel like, hey, this phrase makes me feel known and seen. Then you grab onto that and that's the way that you can describe your experience. And so once we have confidence, it feels a lot easier to approach any difficult conversation because it could be with extended family, but it also could be with our teachers.

It could be with the babysitter. It could be with the neighbor down the block. Anyone that's having a hand. In, having experiences with our kids, there are potential conversations that need to be had. And so if we first feel very confident in who our kid is and who we are as a family, And we're not fearful of their experiences, and we're not afraid of their big behaviors or big feelings, but now we make sense of it.

We know where it's coming from, and we also know the very gifted side of it. That helps us start to pursue those conversations. So that might be, then, let's say that it is highly sensitive child. I like that terminology, that totally fits with my kid, it makes so much sense. Then starting that conversation with, Mom, I, I got this really great information and it's helping me really understand Todd, let's say Todd's my child and it's called Highly Sensitive Child and there are all these books on it and all these experts that talk about it and I just want to teach you a little bit more about what I'm learning.

Invitations to learn alongside are really great. Or maybe you are really attaching to exclamation point kid because you never thought your kid was super sensitive. You actually thought your kid was like anti committal, like angry and explosive. And now you're like, oh wait, they're all the same.

This is just the way that it's expressed in my child. And with that terminology, you're able to talk about it with that grandparent. And you can say, you know what? But this happened the other day and they got so upset and that makes sense given, and then the information that we talked about, it makes sense that he'd be really upset because, man, I was thinking about how he had a different person take him to school that day and then at school they had a fire alarm happen and that wasn't expected.

And then, we had to have a quick dinner on the road and all of these things. So oh. At first I was really upset, but then when I thought back through the day, it made sense because there are so many new things and he processes stuff so deeply. That his body was like, I'm done. And he had a meltdown in the front yard, in front of all the neighbors.

And that's another approach to it. But either way, these are invitations. This is showing first that big piece of I feel confident that my kid's okay. There's not actually something wrong here, that I'm not doing something wrong. And I can support them and who they are and their unique experience of just being alive.

Because we're all wired differently. So we start there and then we grab onto knowledge because it gives us power and it gives us understanding, and we can use that to invite them to learn alongside us from our own mistakes and from our own growing. So that's how I would recommend to go about some of those conversations.

[00:41:53] Hunter: It's a great way of doing it. And have them listen to this episode. Yes. Send it along. This has been so great to talk to you about Exclamation Point Kids. I think it's so helpful. Before, is there anything we missed that you want to share with the listener before we

[00:42:13] Jess Trayser: go? I just feel for these kids and feel like I know them so well.

And I think one of the biggest things, because before starting my work directly with parents and giving workshops I was a mental health therapist and have been for children and adolescents. So I have had the pleasure and honor of seeing, exclamation point, kids grow up into adults. And so I get so excited because I can tell you that these kids, they're in their raw form right now, but they're the kids who turn out to be the healers.

And the helpers and the doers and the creators and the artists because they can't help but do things for the greater good. And it is so beautiful to see that flourish. And so there's, I just need that message to be in there too, that this truly is challenging. It is, it's not to undermine that whatsoever, but I get to have this long haul view.

and understand what comes on the other side and to let parents know that giftedness, that operating underneath that surface, that drive and that care and that desire and that deep feeling moves and motivates them to do some of the best work out there. And I am so grateful. That they exist, and I am so grateful that they can't help but move to make things better.

So there's that whole piece of it too. And we all, if we're claiming that exclamation point kid terminology for us to remember, it's not just the challenging big feelings. It's the really beautiful big feelings, right? Like these are the kids that are very creative, that are really intuitive, that are wise beyond their years.

That look out for others, right? That create and do all of these things. And so there is this whole other piece that's important for us to look at the full of the child of all of this giftedness and the great ways that it expresses itself.

[00:44:06] Hunter: Yes, I love that. Amen to all of that. Jess, Tracer, it's been so lovely to talk to you.

You can find Jess at her website, parentingfromthefloor. co, and on Instagram, parentingfromthefloor. Jess, it's been so lovely to talk to you. I really appreciate it. It's been such a great conversation. I hope it's helped. I know it's helped a bunch of people today. Thank you for coming on.

[00:44:31] Jess Trayser: It flew by.

[00:44:32] Hunter: This is fun.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I love the term exclamation point kids. I think I've been using it since talking to Jess. I think it describes some kids so perfectly. Maybe it describes your kid so perfectly. Or maybe it describes a friend's kids really perfectly. Then in that case, maybe you should text or tell this friend about this episode.

Just share a screenshot, text them about the episode today. Someone who could Use it. Who could help them? And if you like this episode, we have a lot of other episodes that you might like, and you might like taking the mindful parenting podcast quiz. It's at mindfulmamamentor.com/quiz. And you get to answer a few easy questions and you get a unique to you five episode playlist of the Mindful Parenting Podcast to help you become, of course, less stressed, more joyful. You're going to find episodes on how to discipline without punishment. Helping kids calm down, how to talk to littles, and overcoming overwhelm. And that's all at mindfulmamamentor.com/quiz.

And hey, I would love to know if you liked this episode. Please, tag me in social @mindfulmamamentor. I'd love to know what you thought. If you enjoyed it, if it's helping you, that would be great. Helps me, helps my team do this work of doing this podcast, which we love. But we want to know that you love it too, so let me know. Let me know. And you can also leave me a voicemail. You can ask me a question or just leave me a voicemail if you want to say hi. And your voicemail might be part of a Q&A episode, and that's at mindfulmamamentor.com/VM for voicemail. So yeah, it's a new-ish thing. So leave me a question. Maybe it'll be on the podcast. That would be super cool. Make sure you're subscribed. Stick around. Next week we have the awesome, the legendary Dr. Tina Payne Bryson on with Georgie Wisen-Vincent talking about their new book. It's awesome. We had a great time So that's gonna be next week. And of course check out the other “Different Brains, Amazing Kids” episodes and I'm wishing you a great week. It's funny, as I record this, I'm looking at my kitty who has followed me into this space and he's got a web on his head, because he's been poking around and stuff.

Thank you for listening! Have a lovely week! I wish you many hugs, and some rest time, and all those good things. And I'll see you again next week! Thank you for being here. Namaste.

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