Dr. Rebecca Hershberg is a clinical psychologist, parenting coach, author, and speaker. She is the author of the Tantrum Survival Guide, and a mother of two.
518: Love and Limits for Littles
Dr. Rebecca Hershberg
Decades of research demonstrate that healthy parenting— the kind that leads to healthy, well-adjusted children—involves two important dimensions, otherwise known as the “L words”: limits (i.e., structure, rules) and love. But how do we do that with the little ones?
Dr. Rebecca Hershberg comes back on the podcast to talk about how to hold boundaries.
Ep 518- Rebecca Hershberg
Read the Transcript 🡮
*This is an auto-generated transcript*
[00:00:00] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: Toddlers have tantrums. Period. And they're supposed to have tantrums. The idea is that we can make them less frequent, last shorter, be less intense, right? It's about intensity, duration, and frequency.
[00:00:17] Hunter: You're listening to the Mindful Parenting Podcast, episode number 518. Today we're talking about love and limits for littles. with Dr. Rebecca Hershberg.
Welcome to the Mindful Parenting Podcast. Here, it's about becoming a less irritable, more joyful parent. In Mindful Parenting, we know that you cannot give what you do not have, and when you have calm and peace within, then you can give it to your children. I'm your host, Hunter Clarke-Fields. I help smart, thoughtful parents stay calm so they can have strong, connected relationships with their children. I've been practicing mindfulness for over 25 years. I'm the creator of the Mindful Parenting course and teacher training, and I'm the author of the international bestseller, “Raising Good Humans Every Day”, and the “Raising Good Humans Guided Journal”.
Hello, welcome back to the Mindful Parenting podcast. I'm Super glad you're here, and if you are a parent of a toddler, this is an amazing episode for you to be at.
And also welcome to you if you are new. This is an awesome episode, if you are a parent of a little. But listen, before I tell you about it, if you have gotten some value from this podcast in the past, please help grow the show by just telling one friend about it. Send them a text, and you make a huge difference for the podcast.
In just a moment, I'm going to be talking to Dr. Rebecca Hershberg again! And Dr. Hershberg is a clinical psychologist, parenting coach, author, and speaker. She's the author of “The Tantrum Survival Guide” and a mother of two. We have decades of research demonstrating that kind that leads to healthy, well-adjusted children involves two important dimensions, otherwise known as the L words: Limits, Structure of Rules and Love. How do we do that with the little ones?
So I invited Dr. Hershberg to come back on the podcast to talk about how to hold those boundaries. And before we dive in, I want to remind you that one of the best ways to hold boundaries is that we have to be in a clear, grounded, solid space so that we can really be present. So we have out the “Raising Good Humans Guided Journal”, and this is a place to do the work of raising good humans, to write things out, which is like really just a piece of mindfulness where you're expressing and acknowledging what's going on with you. And as we write it out in a journal, then we don't suppress it or let it escape out into unskillful interactions with our kids. So get yourself a copy of the “Raising Good Humans Guided Journal”. And now join me at the table as I talk to Dr. Rebecca Hershberg;
Rebecca, thank you so much for coming back to the Mindful Parenting Podcast. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you asked. It's a pleasure. I feel like, we have to talk about toddlers every once in a while because they're so mind boggling and like that, like so much stuff comes to a head at the toddler period.
And I was just I was just letting you know My neighbor next door has now moved from being a baby to being a little toddler. She toddles around like we have our like dog parties in the cul de sac and she toddles around the dog parties. She's so cute. I haven't seen a single tantrum from her but of course I'm just the neighbor.
I'm sure there's and I gave mom and dad your book to look at. Oh you will want this and apparently I asked about it. And she said, apparently they're reading it together at like lunchtime or something and they call it, she calls it studying together.
[00:04:39] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: Oh my gosh, that's so cute. I was gonna say if they have a one and a half year old and they're managing to have lunch together, part of me feels like the last thing they should be doing is reading my book.
But if that's how they want to spend their time, that's great. I'm picturing her toddling around, of course you do, but like toddlers just sometimes like tip over. You're watching them and then they're just like,
[00:04:59] Hunter: Oh, I know. I was watching someone in the Olympics and someone tipped over, but it was like a guy in the NBA and I was like, Oh, wow And it's different.
He's got so much, so far to fall where it's like a toddler. They're just like, it's just not that far. So it's generally okay. Exactly. Okay, so we're going to get into talking about the big emotions and things like that and how to handle those things. But. I always think it's interesting to refresh ourselves on what is it about you that made you fascinated with these small, chaotic, little human beings?
[00:05:31] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: It's such a good question. I've always been drawn to kids with big feelings, and I think in some ways toddlers have the biggest feelings of all. Just completely unfiltered, unspoiled by the world. They're just, they're like walking kids if we want to go back to Freud. And and I think they're really often misunderstood and thought of as other than human in some way.
And I just was, I was drawn to that and drawn to understanding them and helping others more importantly, understand them and see them For who they are, which is little people.
[00:06:12] Hunter: I know. I think a lot of us think of them as other, as like very different. Because they're just, yeah, they're I guess like in, in our culture, right?
Like we value, I don't know, we value when you got it together. Exactly. And they're, So completely
[00:06:26] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: don't have it together in a big way. They're so out there and they're not old enough yet to try to hide that or, appear otherwise. And I think there's something so endearing about that. But I think probably the most powerful interventions that I do with clients, with families I work with is say, How would it feel if it's Golden Rule style, it's like what would it be like if you heard that or what do and they're, it's like their eyes, open wider and they're like, oh, I never thought of it that way.
It's they're little people, like they're going to experience you as a person. Yeah, I, reminder is always good.
[00:07:01] Hunter: No, I think that's such a great place to start because yeah, I couldn't agree more. Like one of the things that. I, we, I talk about a lot when we're talking about communication is if you're a toddler you're, you're being ordered about all day long, put on your shoes, come over here, go over there, take off your shoes, get in the chair, get out of the chair, come in the car, get out of the car, it's just like again and again, orders and commands all day long.
And I don't think anyone of any age really likes to be ordered and commanded, so it has, it there, there gets a resentment built into that, and sometimes, a lot of times, parents, we don't even see it we don't, oh, really, oh, yeah, I actually, I am doing that all day wrong, and it's hard to even-
[00:07:48] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: It's interesting. I've been using an analogy recently which I haven't used in the past, but it's been pretty powerful of if our toddler or young kid is doing something and we want them to stop or we want them, as you said, to come here for a second, we just demand that. All of a sudden, it's just hey, Kate, come here. Kate, I said come here. And it's the idea that we would ever, let's say, speak with a coworker that way, right? It's without taking a moment and looking at what they're doing and saying okay, hey Kate, I need to speak with you, can you, this is speaking to an adult obviously, but you want to wrap up what you're doing and find some time, with the toddler, we can say, when you're done with your puzzle, or, oh my gosh, that milk looks delicious. Then we're gonna go do the, just something that, that cushions it a little bit. And I think you're right, we just, we get into command mode and we just bark orders in a way that we would never speak with other people.
Which doesn't mean, just to potentially anticipate a listener question, it doesn't mean that we don't have the power and the. And the responsibility of telling them what they need to do and setting structure and setting limits. But there's a way to do that's not just do this, do that, do this, do that, do this, do that.
[00:09:03] Hunter: Yeah, when I think about what you said put myself in their shoes, and the golden rule if somebody I would feel disrespected if somebody spoke to me that is disrespectful to just say, come over here, drop everything you're doing, and come over here, it's not respecting my life, or, what I'm doing, or anything like that, my autonomy, my time, any of that, And and it's interesting because one of the big things that we want as parents is we want respect, right? We want to demand respect and things like that. And we think that we equate in a lot of sense that obedience with respect, but we're not modeling it, are we in the situation, right? Because they're gonna communicate with us a lot of ways, the way we communicate what we're modeling. And, but we're not modeling being respectful of their time or anything like that in that situation.
[00:09:54] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: I think that's such a good point, and I think I would feel disrespected like you said, and I think also I'd feel confused, it's wait, why are you annoyed? I'm just registering what you said and sitting here just taking a moment to finish my breath, like, why are you angry with me?
I haven't. It's almost disorienting in some ways and I think we want so much for our kids, to develop a strong sense of self and confidence, and I hear that from parents all the time, and self assuredness, and yet interacting in that way is going to take all that away in some ways.
[00:10:31] Hunter: Yeah, it's funny, I gotta call myself out here too, because my 14 year old, like sometimes if I get If I'm stressed, and I've had a big day, and I'm just not in a good place, and I'll come inside, I'll see a wrapper, I'll see the dishes not done, I'll see her backpacks, I'll, I'll see a million things, and I'll, it'll just be like, the straw that, ah, and I'll come, and I'll be like, Sora, can't you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and she'll be like, why are you mad at me?
What did I do? And I'm like, oh, I, okay. Now I sound, hear what I sound like and I'm like, no, I'm not mad at you. I'm just like, I've had a, I have to own up, I've had a, I've had a stressful morning and this is just, I'm sorry. But yes, all this stuff really does make me feel a little frustrated.
[00:11:16] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: No, and I have that too. I have a 10 year old and an eight year old. And I'll say if I notice a wrapper, let's say it's Henry, come pick this up. Because to me, it's he knows not to leave wrappers on the floor and there's a wrapper on the floor, but it just goes so much better if I look up and I see what he's doing.
And I say, hey bud, when you're done with that chapter, or like when you get a second or an even better one, I find this works with little kids too, although not quite toddler age. What's your plan? And I noticed there's a wrapper on the floor. What's your plan? And inevitably they'll say, I'm gonna pick it up when I'm done with this chapter, or ooh, I didn't rea like, it just is gonna go so much better than me being like, hey, now, I see there's a wrapper, get up. Get up and pick it up, even if that's where my mind is.
[00:12:01] Hunter: Yeah, we're like burning our good credit at that point, right? Like we're burning it off for something that's no minor.
Stay tuned for more Mindful Parenting podcasts right after this break.
[00:12:37] Hunter: One of the things you talk about is you give a talk called Love and Limits, right? So we have these little creatures, we have to hold limits for them. Okay, we don't, the listeners here saying, Oh God, okay, all right, I don't want to be barking orders. But then how do I hold some limits with this toddler who is just prone to be like exploding like a time bomb at any moment?
[00:13:03] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: Yeah. This is why your neighbors are studying, right? Although I actually think when I give this talk, I think a lot about, Or I talk a lot about how there's so much noise out there with parenting right now, and there's so many little things to remember, and this script, and that script, and is my child this kind of child, or that kind of child, and it's love and limits I just feel is actually a simplification.
It's just, when there's something going on at home or a behavior you don't like or something that doesn't feel good, if we go back to those things. foundational pillars of love and limits, we can usually figure out a good path forward. And I, one more kind of just piece of background information about it before I answer your question is just this idea that for too long they were seen as or have been seen as the opposite ends of a continuum.
You have love on one side and limits on the other. And that's actually not True, right? It's a, it's an x axis and a y axis. And it's been shown, as I don't have to tell you, but perhaps for the listeners, decades of very elegant research that when you are in that top right quadrant with high love and high limit, That's where kids thrive.
So how do you set limits with really little ones? Back to your question. I was hoping to deflect it. Now, run away. Exactly. So I think of limits as and this isn't just me. This is something I read at some point, but it really resonated is, limits are like a fence around our child.
Meaning that they're allowed to play and explore and be free within that fence. And the fence gets wider and wider, that circle, as they get older and older. And it is their job to push up against the fence. And it is our job to make sure that fence doesn't fall down. And Maybe it can bend a little bit, depending but for the most part, that fence needs to be a sturdy fence, and so limits are a container.
They're containing your child. They're allowing your child to feel safe and free and exploratory within this set parameter. And the way to do that, particularly with toddlers, has less to do with what you do when they're doing a behavior that you don't want them to do, although we can certainly talk about that.
And more to do with setting structures and routines that keep things running smoothly and that keep their world predictable because the whole world is so unpredictable for them. They're so new to, everything, and that includes feelings. They're new to feeling frustrated. Can you imagine, we can't really, but the first time you ever had the feeling of really wanting something and seeing it and not being able to have it?
What an awful feeling if you think about not having any context for that. That's hard. And yeah, it's like the, what, wait, but it's there what, and and having. Meals be at predictable times. Having meals go in predictable ways. from your perspective, right? You cannot have a two year old beat in a predictable way per se, but the meal routine or the bedtime routine or bedtime or what mom is like at a given time or what dad says at a given time, not in any kind of like military school style but just a level of consistency where kids feel contained and they feel safe.
And that's typically what I mean by limits. And that can be. Putting something into a schedule that wasn't in a schedule. Like I've recently worked with a few families, actually, where Mom and Dad, hetero normative family, Mom and Dad trade off on bedtimes. And it's still really chaotic, and every time Mom comes in, they want Dad, and when Dad comes in, they want Mom, and it's just, and I've had to just make a schedule where you have Mom's picture.
It's so easy now to print out pictures not like on photo paper, but it's just like on a regular printer, print out a picture of mom and a picture of dad and have it be every other, for a week. And starting in the morning, it's oh, let's look who's putting you to bed tonight.
Oh, whose face is that? Mom, and parents will say to me, oh, they know who's putting them to bed. And I'm like, I don't. Know that they hold that in mind, like their brains are rapidly developing and even if they know on some level the idea that they can see it, the idea that you go over it with them, the idea that it becomes a routinized does so much to come, to calm toddlers and to help toddlers feel like there's a system, there's a plan in place, and when there's a system and a plan in place, there's that fence, And I feel contained, and when I feel contained, I feel regulated, and when I feel regulated, I'm not that ticking time bomb, excuse me, as you said.
[00:17:54] Hunter: Oh, yeah, that makes so much sense. The idea of yeah, we do it every other night, so it's a routine, yet I love this idea of let's just go over it, because they're so in the moment. That's the beauty, a beautiful thing we can learn from them is like, how to be so in the moment, how to be so swept up in awe in the moment, and that's wonderful, but, it, I almost think of it as it almost must be like if you were, I don't know, if you were, like, on drugs or you were drunk or something, you're so in the moment. You're just swept up with something. You're not completely, 100 percent of your brain is not like it. If, you're, if you're dancing or something you're not thinking about anything else. And then all of a sudden, something else comes along. I can almost think, picture that as a similar state of mind, but and but then to say, okay, later, the picture, the visual, because we're such, visual people, and to say, okay, and this is what's happening later, to just plant that seed.
Yeah, I remember we did I want to give Kim Payne from Simplicity Parenting credit for this. We did a meal rhythm for our weeks, and it was, like, one of the best things we did, where we had a schedule, where Monday was, I forget what Monday was. Monday was like rice night, Tuesday was something, Wednesday was pasta, Friday was pizza with tacos in there.
I don't know, I forget what we had, but it was just like, we had this rhythm and that made our kids like, they would just be like, Oh, what's tonight? Oh, okay. It's not. And then, and then they would be like, okay, I can hang out for pasta because I only have one more night to go for pasta night.
But it just gave them the sense of oh, okay, I know what's coming up. Yeah, I feel safe that whole thing. Exactly. So yeah, no, you go ahead. Oh, no, and just we want to have, I just want to underscore what you said because limits have less to do with what to do when they're doing a behavior and more about Routines and Structures.
This is such an answer that we don't want to hear because this is like the infrastructure answer.
[00:19:57] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: Exactly. It's oh, but that sounds like so much work, and it's yeah, and it's so much, it's a lot of work on the front end, but you end up saving so much energy because you're not angry all the time, and you're not frustrated all the time, and you're not waiting for for that next explosion and the explosions are going to happen, right?
That's, this sort of needs to be said at the outset. Toddlers have tantrums. Period. And they're supposed to have tantrums. The idea is that we can make them less frequent, last. shorter be less intense, right? It's about intensity, duration, and frequency. And then the other way to set limits with toddlers a lot of the time is physical limits, right?
I will never forget, I used to do a lot of home observations, and when I first started doing home observations, I kept seeing the same thing again and again. One was a family that said that their child kept touching all these like expensive glass vases. And so it was I can't believe I have my doctorate and I get to tell you like move the vases, I remember a week later it was like a toddler who kept throwing the ball, at the ceiling and almost hitting the light and the parent saying over and over again stop. And it's just take. The ball, right? Again, and it doesn't have to be punitive. It's not this idea of, if you can't stop throwing that ball, then I'm going to take it.
It's, you're clearly too little to be holding this ball, right? It's too hard to hold this ball and not throw it at the ceiling, so I'm going to take it from you. And your child might get really upset. Similarly, not to tell your child 75 times not to climb up on the bookshelf. Pick your child up, and go to a different room, right?
And not to wait so long to do that. I've seen so many power struggles and parents feeling helpless when they are asking kids to do something that is above that child's developmental capacity. So one of the things that's really not developed yet in toddlers is impulse control which lives in the prefrontal cortex, part of the executive functioning system.
And there was a big study done years ago showing that there's, I think, over 50 percent of parents in all different cross sections of the United States overestimate their two and three year olds specifically when it comes to impulse control, and particularly impulse control around aggression. See? And I used to give talks.
I, now I give mostly virtual talks, but I still give some in person talks. And at one point when somebody would raise their hand to ask a question, I would say, Can you please restate the question in Japanese? taking a risk that the parent did not know Japanese and it never happened that the person did.
And they would look at me and I would, they'd start speaking again in English and I'd say, no, I'm sorry, maybe you didn't understand me. Please say the question in Japanese. Uncomfortable laughter, some shuffling. They'd try again. I'd say it again. And then I would, before it got too tense, I would cut it off and I would say, what does it feel like when I'm asking you to do something that is completely out of your range of abilities?
It is so confusing. It is so disorienting. And my guess is if I had let it go, you would have gotten very angry at me and stormed away. That's what happens when we keep telling a toddler, don't climb on the bookshelf or don't hit your sister over and over again. And we're not creating some sort of physical boundary.
It's and then we get angry. It's like I, they're telling, I can't. I know my language is developed. My understanding is developed. I know I'm not supposed to hit the baby. I can't not hit the baby. It is too tempting. I do not have imbalance control. I just want to know what it feels like. They're basically begging you, can you please just hold the baby away from me, right?
And instead we keep saying, I said don't hit the baby, don't hit the baby, don't hit the baby, don't hit the baby, and we get more frustrated and we end up in this really difficult interpersonal thing with a two year old.
[00:23:58] Hunter: Yeah, I think this is such an important thing to underscore the overestimation of impulse control and control in general.
I definitely overestimated my child's impulse control because she was so verbal and and she just seemed so much older when she was two. And someone on the podcast told me, a neuroscientist said to think of toddlers and, especially toddlers as babies who can walk. And I thought if I could.
If I had only thought of my child as a baby who could walk, I would have saved myself so much heartache because I just had such high expectations for, of them for, to be able to do what they
[00:24:38] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: couldn't do. I think we expect, without even realizing it, that all of their abilities develop at the same rate and the same level.
We know it for physical, we know that they can't necessarily, as we said before, really walk. And that they certainly can't, let's say, hop on one foot, and yet they can still toddle around. We're not as good as, with the invisible things, all the cognitive abilities at recognizing how differentially they develop, and that your language develops way before your impulse control.
So I can tell you as a two and a half or three year old exactly what I'm not supposed to do and then go do it. And that's not because I'm, being defiant and I'm out to get you. Although possibly, and that's part of the assessment I do, right? You certainly also have the testing the limits thing.
But it's also I, my, I can tell you that I understand it and still not be able to inhibit the impulses, because that's just a different set of skills that are not developed.
[00:25:38] Hunter: It helps so much to understand that these pieces of development and just to, to get ourselves out of anger and into understanding.
Let's talk about how, how do parents, okay, so let's imagine we're creating a bit of structure. I was thinking even about the physical limits, like toys, right? Like one of the things we talk about in mindful parenting is like reducing the number of toys that are out and then making it easy for your kid to be able to put stuff away.
Had just, I don't know, like little hooks that they could put their jackets on, and things like that, making that, in Montessori, they called it the prepared environment, but that really is about making an environment that is there are things accessible that they can interact with, and there are the things they can't interact with.
should, not be accessible. So I think that is so helpful, this idea of routine, of structure. Maybe we should stay on that for a second, because I imagine you got a few other tips up your sleeve for parents who are like how do I create routine structure? What would be beneficial for my kid as far as like the home environment?
And also thinking about the daily routine, like if you were, say, if you're, say, a stay at home parent with a toddler. What, obviously you want some structure for your daily routine, but like, how busy should toddlers be? Like sometimes in the name of making structure and routine you might have a back to back schedule for a toddler.
[00:27:01] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: Anyway, can you speak to some of those points? Yeah, no, and that's such a good point because those things are not synonymous, right? Having a structured routine does not mean having 10 scheduled periods in your day as a toddler. And I talked about this a lot during COVID. Because I said that, your routine, your day, your daily schedule might be you watch Frozen four times because you have to work and whatever, but you can still put that in a schedule.
four pictures of Frozen in a row, and obviously that's hyperbolic, but the point is, there's predictability. It doesn't have to do with how many things there are, and it doesn't have to do with, again, toddlers have a hard time with transitions, so you don't need to have eight transitions. But it's predicting, okay, we're gonna have breakfast, and then after breakfast, we get dressed.
Then we're gonna go outside, we're gonna play, And maybe play is open, right? You don't have to structure the play. We're going to go to the playground or whatever it is, and we're going to come home. We're going to have lunch. That's a pretty mellow schedule, but I already, I was able to break it into five different parts and to say it in this very clear and linear way.
Toddlers can't yet create. a narrative. They can't create a story. That's why it's so incredibly helpful when a kid trips and falls to tell them what happened, they, we all say, you're okay. And, what we mean is you're not gushing blood and I don't have to take you to the ER.
And even saying if you even just saying I know you were scared or you were, and that can be helpful. But I found that the most helpful thing you can do is say, You were running and you didn't see that stick right there, and so you fell and now you're on the ground and you're like, oh, describe, put these things in order for me.
Oh, you helped me understand that one thing led to another. They're figuring out cause and effect, right? If I press this key on the Fisher-Price piano, it turns a yellow light on . Or like they're figuring that out. Same is true. Once we get dressed, we get to go outside. Making these connections for kids.
That's what I mean by schedules and routines, not I'm going to sign you up for soccer and then this and then that and then that and, every minute has to be scheduled. Does that help?
[00:29:26] Hunter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And would you, what would you say? One of the things that. I learned later in life that I wish I had done more of.
I did a good amount of was the idea of a toddler wants to help so much thinking about the daily routine, right? And they want to do the things you're doing. And you want to encourage that, right? You want to say, yes, be a helpful member of the house. Don't just sit here on the iPad while I'm doing the work for you.
That sends the wrong message. But, it's also really hard when toddlers are helping to actually get anything done. I'm just thinking about that, would it be a good idea for parents to think about a time if there's like maybe a pre dinner prep time, just double the amount of time it normally takes and bring your toddler in and just keep that in the schedule, something like that.
Would you encourage that sort of thing? In a perfect world,
[00:30:18] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: sure. Yeah. I probably myself would have had the bandwidth to do that once a week. Yeah. Being on your iPad can be part of the schedule, right? And then we're going to come home. And I'm going to start making dinner and you're going to be on your iPad because you need a little break and I need a little break.
Again, so it's not about, so by all means, if you want to cook with your kid and spend double the time and like really, get it, start chopping tomatoes together and getting messy and whatever, I think that's great. I don't know that many parents that will happily do that every night.
Yeah. And I like to be real, I would certainly say that giving a, giving a toddler a wet dish rag and telling them to wipe the table can buy you 10 minutes. They love wiping the table, especially-not that I encourage this, but- if there's like visual dust of their actually cleaning, if they can see their progress.I happen to spill this dusting of flour on the table, sorry. But you can also make up jobs that, like I used to throw a bunch of I have one on my wrist, hair elastics. in my purse and say I really needed help finding 10 hair elastics and that was a great job for them while I did whatever I needed to do. It was a job that I fully created but it was some time away from the screen when I needed to get, so I think there's absolutely ways to capitalize on their wanting to be helpers while also recognizing that unless they're actually engaged in something. It's going to end up being more play and less productive for you.
[00:31:57] Hunter: I really appreciate you bringing us to the realistic middle path for that. That really helps.
Stay tuned for more Mindful Parenting podcasts right after this break.
[00:32:44] Hunter: So let's think of like when. When we do have to set a boundary, when we do have to set a limit, what are, what's the, some of the language that, that is best to use with a toddler when, where we are, like, what is the what to do when a behavior happens?
[00:33:04] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: Short. Short, sweet, short, regulated, clear, calm, what is it, clear, calm, and what's the third, connected. I was like, I can't move with this, why don't I, clear, calm, and connected oh no sweetie, I know the bookshelf is, bookshelf is really fun and there's no climbing on it. Validating the feeling or the experience and setting the limit. I know you want another cookie. No more cookies right now. Very simple and knowing that they may get upset. And that's okay. There's nothing to fear there. So often we end up in these patterns where we're walking on eggshells because we're so worried our child's going to melt down and we can talk about what happens if that happens, in the park or at Target or whatever. But certainly if your Mindful Mama feels bad that a client is not giving her or his baby developed when you're a toddler. So what a cool way to practice having the feelings and realizing that they're not going to hurt you and that mom or dad or caregiver is right there to help you through.
[00:34:25] Hunter: Yeah. And dear listener, we've talked a lot about how to help ourselves stay regulated in these really challenging moments in so many episodes of the Mindful Parenting Podcast. So invite you to Go back to those. We're not going to dive into that today. I want to know what do you do when you are in Target and the the I want it and the meltdown happens, but you really have to get some stuff maybe from Target. What do you do?
[00:34:52] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: You tolerate it, right? You tolerate it. And, I would say it might, there's a couple things I think that happen in a public place. One is, and I realized this with my own kids how quickly we throw our own kids under the bus to, Commiserate with some random person we've never seen before in the target aisle So our kid is throwing a tantrum and we're like looking at some person we've never met.
We're like, oh, hi No, I know Parenting man, like this is so hard and Energetically, our kids feel that. It's what do you mean this? You don't even know him. I'm struggling. Why are you abandoning me? And I use that word very consciously. I think it's overused. Our kids are not going to be traumatized from that.
That is not an actual abandonment. But it is something that can shift a kid to become more dysregulated because we're much more concerned about how we're being perceived than we are with what our kid is going through. And that makes the tantrum worse, right? So there's the tantrum that is happening because let's say they can't have the thing at target, but so much of it then becomes about, are you getting me?
Are you understanding me? Are you? And so we can be there for them and just keep, again, calming them down, not in a this is a crisis way, which will upset them more, but in a yeah, you've got, you're having some feelings, and we're at target. Okay, we're still, we gotta get three more things, and then we're gonna be done, and maybe you start singing a song and try to distract and try, but again, you're there.
Ideally, and I highly recommend people go back to your past podcasts, staying regulated because there's not actually a crisis. Your toddler's having a tantrum at Target. That's not, that doesn't go in the crisis column. And biologically, you might feel, your blood pressure's rising, and your heart is pounding, and your cheeks are getting red, and it's just reminding yourself, this is just feelings.
My kid's having feelings. And then if your kid's really falling apart, for whatever the reason, you may have to leave Target. And again, that's not about, I can't believe you couldn't keep it together at Target, or if you keep acting like this, we're going to have to leave. It's just saying okay, we can't do this right now.
This is too hard. I'll come back another time. And that's certainly something to have perhaps a lower bar for if you're like at a restaurant with other people trying to enjoy their meal. If you don't stop this right now, we have to leave this restaurant. No, it's just, we're gonna go take a break.
Cause again, it all ties together, but when we're talking limits, structures, and routines, And before you go into Target you're making a schedule for Target because your kids have never been to Target or they've been to Target three times and they don't remember because they're so in the moment, right?
So you're saying, we're going to go in, we're going to get a wagon, I'm going to put you in the top of the wagon. No, I'm going to walk, I'm going to walk. Okay, then you're going to hold my hand. We'll push it together, and we have to get these three things, and you're gonna stay next to me, and we're not gonna get you any toys.
We're gonna see such great toys. We're not gonna get them. And I'm gonna hold your hand, cuz that's tricky. That's hard, right? So you are pre gaming. I call it pre gaming. My son's teacher calls it front loading. The same idea of structures, routines. predictability. You're doing throughout the day before any big thing you're doing to let them know what's coming down the pike, what's coming down the pike emotionally, what's coming, and I will certainly have parents say to me, but I, their bosses aren't going to do that, like life isn't like that. And it's, All the research shows that your child will actually, as counterintuitive as it is, be better prepared to deal with the boss who doesn't do that.
If you as a parent do that then the opposite, right? If you as a parent can be a really clear, predictable, regulated person some of the time, your child becomes more resilient and better able to deal with life's challenges. Hardships as opposed to, then my child's never gonna learn to deal with life's hardships.
[00:38:45] Hunter: Yeah. That does feel counterintuitive to a lot of people, but I think of it almost as it's like the learning structure, right? Like I think the learning structure applies to so many things, which is I think of it as like a, the learning ladder or steps. And it's the sort of first.
First I do it for you, then we do it together, then you do it and I am there watching you, and then you do it alone, right? And everything is like that. Everything in life. And everything we do with our kids. When we're in that toddler phase everything is first, I do it for you or with you, and there's so many things like that.
We want them to learn that they have to learn by us doing it for them or us doing it and us doing it with them for a long time. And that includes emotional regulation, predictability, all of these things that you're saying, which are so valuable that we want in our kids. We have to do it for them first.
Exactly. So that they can ultimately do it for themselves. This is so helpful. It's always calming and helpful to talk to you, and I think it's I feel I felt like when my kid was a toddler I was in a panic, and I, oh, I wanted just a, I wanted just a piece of that calm, unflappability that someone like Dr. Hershberg can provide so I hope that she has provided that for you also, dear listener, today. Anyway. And her book is “The Tantrum Survival Guide”. It can be found anywhere books are sold, and you can't steal it from my neighbor yet. They're going to need it probably in a year. Is there anything we missed that you want to leave the listener with?
[00:40:30] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: There's so many things we didn't get to, but that always, no. I could be like, yes, we didn't talk about strategic attention, and we didn't talk about playfulness, and we didn't talk about using humor, and we didn't, we can do another one. Or people can get the book, or, but I think we, we dove into some really important pieces.
[00:40:47] Hunter: Yeah, I really appreciate it, and I'm just gonna remind the listener, the limits are like a fence they're container, and we use these physical limits, and love and limits. So the love piece is I see you, I hear you, I'm empathetic, I'm with you, I'm, And then the limits, doing them in tandem together, right? And I appreciate the help for what to do in a public place as well.
[00:41:17] Dr. Rebecca Hershberg: Pre game people. Yes. And yes, having the listener with, and I think this is all over your podcast, but therefore it still deserves mentioning be gentle with yourself. No, when I said yeah, you can cook with your kid I'm going to put my kid on the iPad. It's we're just, it's one day at a time. None of us are perfect. We're all the experts in our own kids. Take what you like and leave the rest. And if you're using any of the content on this podcast episode to beat yourself up about anything you've done. before or will do tomorrow, then that's not the spirit in which it's been.
[00:41:54] Hunter: Yeah. We all messed up. Dr. Rebecca Hirshberg messed up, I messed up, and you know what? It's okay. It's okay. We're all meddling up. I feel like it's a jarrat. Yes, so true. So true. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming back on the Mindful Parenting Podcast. It's really such a pleasure, again, to talk to you and thanks for everything you do.
Thank you so much for listening. Oh man, she has so much good information. Such a toddler master. I love it. I love those toddler masters. If you want more of Dr. Hershberg, Listen to episode number 217, “How to Reduce Toddler Tantrums”, and also you can listen to episode 427, which is a live coaching call, “How to Hold Boundaries with a Toddler”, with me and a listener. So that's 217 and 427. If you are in the throes of the toddler-ness and you need some support, definitely listen to those. And thank you for listening. Thank you so much. I hope you appreciated this. Please text one friend about this episode today. Text someone with a toddler who could use it and could use some help.
We have an awesome episode next week. Dr. Stan Tatkin is coming back. We're going to talk about how to be a securely attached couple. So if you have a parenting partner, you know that your strong relationship is such an important part It's like one of the most valuable assets in your parenting, in your family. So be back to listen to that episode. So powerful. And yeah, I'm wishing you the best. Thank you so much for being here. I hope that This episode has helped build your awareness and just help you feel a little less alone and how crazy it is. You're, it's not you. It's not you. It's how it is. I hope you feel a little less alone in that.
I certainly did. And bye. Yeah, wishing you a great week and I'll be back to talk to you again real soon. Thanks so much for listening. Namaste.
[00:44:12] Mindful Mama Member: I'd say definitely do it. It's really helpful. It will change your relationship with your kids for the better. It will help you communicate better and just, I'd say, communicate better as a person, as a wife, as a spouse. It's been really a positive influence in our lives. So definitely do it. I'd say definitely do it. It's so worth it. The money really is inconsequential when you get so much bigger. From being a better parent to your children and feeling like you're connecting more with them and not feeling like you're yelling all the time or you're like, why isn't things working? I would say definitely do it. It's so worth it. It'll change you. No matter what age someone's child is, it's a great opportunity for personal growth and it's great investment in someone's family. I'm very thankful I have this. You can continue in your old habits that aren't working or You can learn some new tools and gain some perspective to shift everything in your parenting.
[00:45:15] Hunter: Are you frustrated by parenting? Do you listen to the experts and try all the tips and strategies, but you're just not seeing the results that you want? Or are you lost as to where to start? Does it all seem so overwhelming with too much to learn? Are you yearning for community people who get it, who also don't want to threaten and punish to create cooperation?
Hi, I'm Hunter Clarke-Fields and if you answered yes to any of these questions, I want you to seriously consider the Mindful Parenting membership. You will be joining hundreds of members who have discovered the path of mindful parenting and now have confidence and clarity in their parenting. This isn't just another parenting class. This is an opportunity to really discover your unique, lasting relationship, not only with your children, but with yourself. It will translate into lasting, connected relationships, not only with your children, but your partner too. Let me change your life. Go to mindfulparentingcourse.com to add your name to the so you will be the first to be notified when I open the membership for a month. I look forward to seeing you on the inside. MindfulParentingCourse.com
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