Leslie M. Martino has over twenty years of experience teaching—as an elementary school teacher, a home educator, and an adjunct lecturer for graduate courses focused on the role of the teacher in supporting children’s individual work preferences. She homeschools her four children and works as an educational consultant, writing curricula, training teachers, and coaching parents to approach learning in an interest-based and child-directed way. She is a speaker on topics of education and motherhood and is also a contributing writer for the Wild + Free homeschooling community.
529: The Joy of Slower Learning
Leslie Martino
Are you going too fast? In this conversation, Hunter Clarke-Fields and Leslie Martino talk about education, learning, and the importance of slowing down in both parenting and homeschooling.They delve into the challenges and fears that parents face in the homeschooling journey, the benefits of interest-based learning, and the need for intentionality in education. The conversation emphasizes finding balance, and the practical steps that can be taken to slow down and foster a more enriching learning environment.
Ep 529- Martino
Read the Transcript 🡮
*This is an auto-generated transcript*
[00:00:00] Leslie Martino: It's easier when you're in an environment where someone else is the most responsible adult for your child education. Like you're responsible, the teacher does it right. But then at home, it's oh, that person's me.
[00:00:14] Hunter: You're listening to The Mindful Mom Podcast, episode #529. Today, we're talking about the joy of slower learning with Leslie Martino.
Welcome to the Mindful Mama podcast. Here it's about becoming a less irritable, more joyful parent. At Mindful Mama, we know that you cannot give what you do not have, and when you have calm and peace within, then you can give it to your children. I'm your host, Hunter Clarke-Fields. I help smart, thoughtful parents stay calm so they can have strong, connected relationships with their children. I've been practicing mindfulness for over 25 years, I'm the creator of the Mindful Parenting course and teacher training, and I'm the author of the international bestseller “Raising Good Humans Every Day”, and the “Raising Good Humans Guided Journal”. Hello and welcome. I'm glad you're here.
Listen. If you've ever gotten any value from this podcast, please do me a favor and just help it grow by telling one friend about it, and that just makes a huge difference, and I hugely appreciate it. In just a moment, I'm going to be sitting down with Leslie M. Martino, who has over 20 years of experience teaching as an elementary school teacher, home educator, An adjunct lecturer for graduate courses focused on the role of the teacher in supporting children's individual work preferences. She homeschools her four children and works as an educational consultant. Writing curricula, training teachers, and coaching parents to approach learning in an interest based and child directed way. And we're going to talk about education, learning, and the importance of slowing down in both parenting and homeschooling. That's what you're doing. We're going to talk about the challenges and the fears that we parents face if you're doing that homeschooling journey, and the benefits of interest based learning. We're going to talk about wanting to find balance and practical steps that you can take to slow down and foster a more enriching learning environment for your kiddo.
Before we dive in, I want to let you know that “Raising Good Humans Every Day” is the perfect bedside book. with 50 short chapters, and it goes beyond raising good humans to give you even more in a really bite sized manner. So if you feel busy and you need something to support you being less reactive and raising kind, confident kids, get yourself a copy of “Raising Good Humans Every Day”.
I'm so proud of this book. I love it. I know you're going to love it. Okay. Now onto our conversation.
A quick heads up: right now, enrollment for the Mindful Parenting Teacher Certification Program is open. Why do parents and professionals join this certification program? Some want to deepen their own understanding of mindful parenting. Others are ready to give back supporting families while earning income in a deeply fulfilling way. Some are adding it to their current offerings. And just so you know, being a perfect parent isn't a requirement, just a desire to grow and to make a difference. Here's the best part: cohorts are intentionally kept super small, just six participants, to ensure personalized attention and meaningful connections.
The enrollment window closes soon, so don't wait. Learn more and apply today at mindfulparentingcourse.com/teach. That's mindfulparentingcourse.com/teach. So I'd love to ask my guests how you were born and what your childhood was like. Were you a wacky homeschool kid?
[00:03:51] Leslie Martino: Childhood was great.
I was not homeschooled. I was raised. in a loving home with my mom and my dad and my brother. And my brother was a little bit older. So he went to school and would come home and teach me everything that he learned today or that he knew. He, I think, taught me how to write in cursive. He taught me how to count.
I just remember so many specific things that he taught me how to do. Yeah. And even though I wasn't homeschooled. It sounds so crazy, but I feel like I was, because although I loved particular teachers or I could remember like cool projects that we did, my, my learning memories from childhood are all at like in the summers with my mom who was home because she was in education as well.
And we just would be home and going to the library and out in the garden and taking a walk around. Manhattan. We grew up in New York City. So those are my memories, and I feel like in a lot of ways, those really shaped who I was as a learner.
[00:04:55] Hunter: Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, my, my first friend was a homeschool kid who lived we lived on this street.
She lived behind me in a renovated, lost, old factory space. And I remember just doing things like. Making a wind tunnel at our house and dipping candles and like doing all these like really fun, interesting projects. I lived at their house.
[00:05:20] Leslie Martino: Yes. Yes. That is really fun. We always had projects going.
Even I have a big scar on my chin because my, brother had this chemistry set, but it was really intense and full of bottles and vials and all kinds of glass. And once I fell down the stairs and crashed right into his chemistry set, and that's the glass that cut me. So I always think about all of the projects we had going, I will forever remember.
The chemistry projects.
[00:05:51] Hunter: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Big brothers can be a little bit of a hazard. Sorry. This is so totally like random and not on topic, but like when we lived at that house where my friend lived behind me, my brother, when I was that little, had the great idea to sled down the attic stairs. And so of course.
He tested out on me, the little sister, first to make sure I'm safe. We got that big ol plastic sled, we send me down the attic stairs, and I broke my collarbone, but yeah. Oh no! Yeah, and then my mom. Oh, that's terrible. Who is who is a nurse. She was like, Oh, she's fine. She's just crying. Put her to bed.
Put her to bed. Put her to bed. My dad, who is so funny, because if you're a listener of this podcast, I talk about my dad's temper and I learn, this, there's some challenges there. But in this moment, he really saved me. He was like, Dana, one shoulder is down here. One shoulder is up here.
There's really something wrong. Like we need to take her to the hospital for her voice. This is not where shoulders should be. Oh, wow. Anyway, so I'm excited to talk to you about learning and I'm fascinated by learning. But, I know that you, you were you were also fascinated by learning.
Obviously, you were a classroom teacher for 10 years. You taught graduate students. What made you so interested in education?
[00:07:15] Leslie Martino: That's a good question. I'm not really sure what initially. I just knew, maybe I can attribute it to myself and always loving learning. I am just fascinated by how human beings come to learn things, and I like to learn things, and I like to watch children.
I love children. I think the way when we watch children, we can learn so much. about how they approach the world and we can learn a lot about the world by watching them. But I, I think just combining those two things is what initially got me so interested in it and steeped in that world for so long.
[00:07:54] Hunter: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's so interesting. I have a master's in art education, so I remember going into that. that learning about learning piece and reading these thinkers and just really getting so fascinated by how we learn. And then also how like our school systems like may or may not be set up for learning.
In fact, I thought it was, I thought it during my student teaching as an art. Education, I had a thesis show at the end and I also did some student teaching. I really wanted to test out like kind of Montessori style follow your passion kind of learning for these kids. Like this teacher, she took a leave of absence and I just like completely changed her classroom.
Oh wow. That's pretty bold. Like patient based thing. And it was really fascinating. But I. I became really interested, and I really became interested in Montessori because I knew, from my experience with my good friend who was homeschooled, like that this was really interesting what they did and that they did this individualized learning.
And then I learned about, then I was like, ah, gosh, I, that sounds so cool. I would love to homeschool. And then I learned about Montessori, which was the happy medium between it where it wasn't you necessarily doing teaching, but it was very much that whole follow the child philosophy and and more, much more individualized learning.
And I'm just wondering about what did you learn about education? Because you did, you taught for 10 years, you were teaching graduate students. That made you want to homeschool your own kids because I know as I was learning all this education stuff like There were things that I learned I was like, oh man like I'm not sure I want to send them into the System that I felt like and I'm wondering if you felt some of the same feelings
[00:09:42] Leslie Martino: so when I talked to a lot of People who were in classrooms in education and who then homeschool their children, they often talk about having to unlearn some of the things that were happening there.
Unfortunately many of the things that are built into the traditional education system they either just don't work at home or they, you realize. the poor messaging around them or the things that they are inherently teaching that you don't want to teach or the bureaucracy involved, whatever it is.
But for me, the experience was a little bit different because the environments that I was teaching in were very non traditional. And they were I taught in this school for a while that was a small school in East Harlem, one of the first schools in the 70s to explore open education and Reggio Emilia style learning and, really believed in mixed age classrooms and following the child's interests and the kids we didn't really use much curriculum.
And so I got to be in that environment, I grew up there as a teacher, and I saw how so many different children, different types of learners were thriving, and I realized that I was also thriving, because the same things that we were affording the children, had an impact on me they were also affording me and my own learning process, time and space to figure things out positive and descriptive feedback about what people notice about you in a way that really breathed life and wasn't like pass fail, like a lot of education systems, teachers are so afraid to even show themselves teaching because, they I don't know they, there are consequences for if you're not there.
On a scripted page of the curriculum or things like that. And so anyway, to say a long story, make a long story short, when I said, Hey I think I'd really like to homeschool. I was looking to do that.
[00:11:50] Hunter: Okay. What is Reggio Emilia? You mentioned that I don't have a clear idea of it. I'm sure it's a lot of listeners and don't know what that is.
Sure.
[00:11:59] Leslie Martino: So there's a region in Italy, which is where this approach to education is named after Reggio Emilia. And it it's very similar in a lot of ways to Montessori people I think are always comparing the two, but it is about a child following their interests of the whole.
Classroom is set up and the environment, there's lots of care and detail put into the environment for that environment to basically be a third teacher. So the kids are learning from each other. They're learning from the materials. They're doing, beautiful work with open ended materials. Most of those classrooms have something called an atelier with a large art space just attached and a teacher just for that space where if you want to create a paper mache jungle, yeah, you're going to go and do it.
It was just, it's just beautiful, but it's about constructing knowledge together with each other. So there's a lot of individual work. There's community style work and There are a lot of similarities with and differences, of course, with Montessori, but it's. I would say in a nutshell, it's that very materials heavy, follow child following their interests and questions type of learning.
[00:13:14] Hunter: Stay tuned for more Mindful Mama podcasts right after this break.
[00:13:51] Hunter: I mean, to me, I love that. I remember being like, I was like this really smart kid who hated school, like I, I hated I remember sitting there in the desk all in a row, like working on the worksheets and just hating school, but I loved learning things.
I read voraciously. I wanted to do things and learn things and create things, and I hated the classroom setting and the rigid components of it. And then in fourth grade I got to do this, it was like a, I don't know, they pulled me out on Fridays for this, I guess it was like a gifted and talented kind of program.
And then we got to do projects and follow our interests and do what you're describing. And then it was like, Oh, this is really interesting again, and it's just seemed to me, I would always, as I learned about these sort of different styles of education that, that take advantage of interest that I think are, that it makes so much more sense and It, to me, it drives me crazy I want I want the whole system to change and learn that, that we can all learn some of the same things we just don't necessarily have to learn at the same time and in exactly the same way.
What do you think for people who are in a traditional school system, what do you think is keeping, this is a big question, I guess we're going to talk about homeschooling and slow, slowing down, but what do you think is is keeping them from.
from letting things be more interest based. Is it just like all the, I don't know, maybe you don't know either.
[00:15:26] Leslie Martino: I think it's probably a combination of a lot of things. I think it boils down to fear. I feel like to lead with interest first. Really requires you to unpack your whole notion of progress and success.
Because if you're only looking for it to unfold in one particular way, lockstep with every other child by following a very prescribed model of education or prescribed curriculum, then it's going to be hard for you to believe that you are doing right by children if you're letting them follow them interest because What then there's that fear that it sometimes it's not even malicious.
It's out of love It's but what about what about what about and I think that you don't necessarily know It seems like it can be limiting And so you have this model that somebody has made you believe is the least limiting, which actually has a lot of questions. And why not follow that tried and true model as opposed to doing something so risky?
Because you're risking your job, you're risking the child's family's contentment about what it is you're doing with their child. You're risking the school's money source. You're risking like, and so there's all these players involved and There's all these there's all these risks and it I think it really boils down to fear and I think also people Yeah, I don't think they're always willing to question the Education system or how it became the way it became or why it exists as it exists it's just, for so long, it's what we've all just been given, that traditional model that says hey.
This is what education is. And I think what we saw, after 2020, the birth of so many micro schools, and it was like, people were forced to question education again, and hey, is what we're doing actually working here? People don't do that very often. I think historically you see it in like big shifts okay, this is, we're thinking about this again.
Something has shifted in society. Okay. We're thinking about it. And that's what has been the impetus to all these different educational movements, but it's. It's hard to question.
[00:17:44] Hunter: Yeah, I agree. Although I want to come back to that, but I want to say for any educators who are listening, you may know my daughter.
I was a founding board member of the first public charter Montessori school in the state of Delaware and the But for the principal and the leading person who created this charter school, the Montessori charter school, she was teacher of the year in Delaware, like three years in a row because she brought Montessori principals into her regular traditional third grade classroom and the kids were doing so well with it.
So just FYI, but maybe it might be, I think it might be helpful before we go into the kind of the slow schooling, Leslie, if you could, would you mind sharing maybe a little bit for the listener? of, on a little under of what your understanding is of how we got to where we are with the traditional school system and kind of what its aims were.
Do you mind sharing that?
[00:18:38] Leslie Martino: Yeah, sure. I think that it's hard because throughout history, there's been. There would never have been the creation of all these different models, right? Montessori, Reggio Emilia Waldorf all these different models exist for a reason, because there have been people for a long time who have been thinking about education, questioning education in different regions of the world.
pockets and communities. So I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I think we have to recognize that large scale, there is a pretty pervasive model out there that is has been driven by a lot of big policy makers and has been driven by money decisions about curriculums that they're going to use and they don't always have the child's best interests in mind.
And so it's a difficult question to answer because although there's not. One model that exists everywhere. And you could probably point to very specific communities and say let's break down how we got here, how we got to this place in this community or in this region. And I feel like all of those, there would be, it would be so nuanced and different.
But I do think that large scale, you do see, you don't see the models like Montessori or a less traditional, based education happening in public schools, I guess you could say. And, one of the, some of the things that I do in the book are even just breaking down, even just that idea of progress and success and rethinking.
All the things that go along with that traditional model of education scope and sequence of different curriculums, we just think this is what you learn in kindergarten. This is what you learn in first grade, like says who, like that all was developed for a very specific reason.
and by groups of people who just made decisions. But if you ask people, even across different countries, what's in your scope and sequence, what's, they're all different. So what does that tell you? We're all just choosing and there's not one. That's like the right answer or the, pinnacle of success or the best, education that you can present in a school.
And so I think, unfortunately, I'm going to just go out go ahead and say, I think we've bought into a lot of lies when it comes to the education system in America, at least.
[00:21:19] Hunter: It's interesting because I think I was talking about, we are now, with AI we are so far from the idea that you're going to regurgitate a bunch of facts and you're going to test how educated someone is.
But now you're just going to ask ChatGPT to tell you about all the six reasons why blah blah blah happened, right? So the idea of like research and finding facts of, finding out what happened is so instantaneous and easy now, right? So we're so far from having having a knowing facts based model of learning.
And what I was thinking, I was talking about this with my daughter, it's maybe now we'll actually come around more to maybe something like AI will force us to be coming around more to the idea of learning and learning itself, how we learn as more of a goal, like it's possible. This is my pie in the sky dreams.
that it could be a catalyst for people diving into how do kids learn? Then going back to interest and things like that, how do kids learn better? And making that more of a focus of education rather than can you, Do you know these facts that we all should know or something?
[00:22:28] Leslie Martino: I definitely agree with that.
And I think it's also going to come down to using the mind well learning to, to weed through all of the information that we are bombarded with daily, learning to think critically depth over breath, like in this information rich age, it's impossible to know everything.
But can you know one thing really well and what does that mean to know one thing really well? Do you have the experience of that thing in your hands and your body and your emotions and your mental and your the things? That have you know had meaningful experiences related to this thing? Can you talk?
Naturally, I was talking to somebody who said that they think that we'll see a return to the type of testing that's very verbal.
[00:23:11] Hunter: Oh yeah, like an asking questions, Socratic, media.
[00:23:16] Leslie Martino: Just because of what's happening with AI and technology. But I think that, I feel like that has always been.
the goal of good education, but I feel like it's becoming even more obvious now. What makes a learner?
[00:23:30] Hunter: Yeah. Yeah. It's right in your face. Yeah.
[00:23:34] Leslie Martino: Yeah.
[00:23:36] Hunter: I adore the idea of like interest based learning. Like my daughter is, has learned. Is is, could be hired at the local aquarium store because at 14 years old and even at 13 years old, she's such an expert on fish and what they need and the creating the ecosystem and the tank and the, all the different things and the spending all the time on, aquarium co op forums and et cetera.
Like she has be self taught herself to become. an incredible expert on freshwater fish in spawning. And I love that so much. They all know her name at the local fish store. Like they're all like, I saw her. Anyway, it's great. But I, so I adore that interest based learning and the idea that like interest just makes you like, it's like a sponge that just soaks up everything, right?
It's like that factor that makes you learn something a hundred times faster and more quickly and easily, etc. And you bring that into your book on homeschooling, learning the joy of slow and bring in this factor of slow. And I like that in the first chapter you write that. Having a meaningful homeschool experience involves one very bold, important act, slowing down, and I'm just wondering about this I, I do have friends who homeschool.
Are homeschoolers feeling that same pressure to go and achieve and do? Are they rushing? Through learning too. Are we trying to get stuff into little kids and more and more in that realm as well?
[00:25:11] Leslie Martino: I think so. I think that many homeschoolers even experience it as a slow creep
Because when a child is younger, it's a lot easier to buy into the experience of a slow childhood and freedom to play. And open ended look, that sense of, expansiveness and open ended time and interest and, but then as the children get older, I think amongst homeschoolers, there's like a worry that sets in, sometimes even a panic about my goodness, what do I need to prepare my child for beyond this homeschool experience?
And in an effort to answer that question, I think sometimes things can become really rushed. And unfortunately, it's, I would say, I've noticed this across different educational contexts, whether it's in the classroom or homeschoolers There's all of these same ideas and fears that start to surface and bubble up.
And I think that they fear we're needing to hover the curriculum, whatever the curriculum is. not having enough time to do it all. They're afraid that their child will leave their homeschool experience with learning gaps. Yeah,
[00:26:27] Hunter: of course.
[00:26:28] Leslie Martino: Yeah, and something that I say about that is that, we all have learning gaps.
They're unavoidable. I think what matters is how we interpret them. I think too often we interpret that as negative, or we fault the child, or we fault the teacher, The teacher did not teach the child everything the child was supposed to learn or we equate what a child has learned with what was taught.
I just feel like those are just really horrible relationships. I don't necessarily think it's that clear cut all the time. And the thing is that, I don't remember everything I learned in grade school. I don't have, it's just I think most adults are struggling when it comes to some of that material.
But if we've taught a child to, to be the type of learner, and thinker who can think critically, go after the information that they want to know, figure out what gaps they want to close. I think that's the more important skill because the truth is that if tomorrow I decided to be an engineer, I'd have to close some gaps for myself.
That's just how life is, there's some learning gap there that I would need to fill in order to meet that goal. And I think that our children need to know that's going to continue to be the case their entire lives. And I don't, I, I think that is definitely a common issue, no matter what the educational setting is.
[00:27:54] Hunter: So you're almost calling on homeschooling adults and parents to, to. To be introspective about their own fears and their, be aware of their own feelings of insecurity about their homeschooling and about their choice, right? Because I imagine they get questioned about their choice a lot.
If you're a homeschooler, imagine you, there are bunches of people everywhere, right? Yeah,
[00:28:24] Leslie Martino: for sure, especially when you are the one who's it's easier when you're in an environment where someone else is the most responsible adult for your child education, like you're responsible, but not that much, the teacher does it right.
But then at home, it's oh, that person's me. That creates a whole nother set of fears sometimes, like how, is this, does this all fall on me? And there's a lot of reflection that has to go into, I don't think it's possible to homeschool your children or to parent well, really, without being a reflective, responsive, growing human being.
Like you have to think about the things that you do. You have to think about the consequences that your own thoughts have, your assumptions have. You have to weigh all of that constantly and that's what adulting is, I think. I don't know. It just, there's no way around that.
[00:29:17] Hunter: Stay tuned for more Mindful Mama podcasts right after this break.
[00:29:55] Hunter: Okay, so let's encourage them then. What are the benefits of going slow, of slowing down in education?
[00:30:05] Leslie Martino: I think that there are so many benefits and I think it's slowing down in education, it's slowing down in parenting. I think you have the ability when you slow down to be much more intentional. And you have to step out of the rat race to even get a glimpse of what that race was about. of why you're in the race, of what you don't want and what you do want.
You have to be intentional about what you value, what you want to make space for. You have to eliminate the things that are taking up your time and taking up your attention that you don't even value. You have to live a life that's aligned with those values. And I think that level of intention is a benefit of going slowly.
It's not just in Fast forward, and it's not just on autopilot. It requires intention. It requires presence. And I think that when you slow down, you can focus on more time, I think to pursue things that are naturally slow, but it's also just a less type of living that's based less on consumption.
I think in going fast, Because we're on that autopilot fast forward mode, we're consuming a lot, we're consuming a lot of information, but it's not it's I don't know, I just get these images of just it's like input, but there's no output. There's no balance.
It's
[00:31:24] Hunter: Not, it's like at a superficial level. So an example of this would be my 17 year old daughter recently announced to us Like, she had been, on a lot of the evenings, like a lot of teenagers, watching some YouTube videos, and she would watch cool stuff. She'd watch Kyrgyzstan videos and tell us things and learn things and all this stuff and it was cool.
But anyway, she recently announced to us, said, I'd like to watch more movies. I want to be, like, I want to know the cultural references. I want to have a more in depth experience rather than just be entertained. And she wants to experience movies as art and rather than just be entertained.
And I was like, wow, that is so cool that she's making this announcement, but that's an exact illustration of what you're talking about slowing down. rather than the sort of quick, input again and again at a superficial level.
[00:32:18] Leslie Martino: And something that I like to say and just put out there is that, I think in writing this book and in thinking so much about the idea of slow, I'm not saying that fast is bad, Fast, going fast, going quickly at times can even be fun but I think that when we don't slow down enough to be intentional and present to decide for ourselves what speed we should be going at for what particular thing.
You have to have the option. That's also a problem, and I really think I say this in the book But I think that I'm in many ways slow is really a paradox of balance and it's what is happening able because I I think of it as a balance scale. That's the image I think a lot in pictures and I get this image of a balance scale and it's the ones that hang And sometimes people hear me talk about slow and they think, so you're just like after some like life of perfection and I'm like, no, not at all.
In order to keep a scale balance, especially if you're walking with it and it's hanging and it has different things on it and it's like a life of constantly taking off and putting things on like it's a process of. Assessing the damage that's done of going through hard things. It's a it's walking for a season and having things perfectly moved and then somebody changes or some life event happens and something has to be taken up and you have to find balance again.
But. But so I, what I'm saying is that it's a paradox of balance. It's slow. It's supposed to feel messy. The point is to stay present through it all and to always be reflective about what it is that you're going through, about what it is that you, you want out of this life that you're creating, at home with your families and with your children.
I think that's, that, that's the point of it all. I think that we need to call hustle culture into question and step outside of that and say, Hey, I'm going to slow it out, figure out what speed is necessary for this season in my parenting and my homeschooling and my whatever.
[00:34:29] Hunter: Yeah, it's, it sounds like.
What you're describing is like really being deliberate about your choices and things like that so that you have some space. You have some slack in the system, right? So you can go faster, you can slower, not like when, I've worked with clients and there's no slack in their system.
It's going. And I really want them to just have some space because otherwise you just can't be resourced for. everything that's coming your way, right? And you're describing being resourced mentally, being resourced in your heart, that clear vision, having the resources to have that, and so then make your choices going forward.
I'd love to notice what does that look like, for the, for busy people, whether they're homeschooling or whether they're not homeschooling listeners. It's what is that? I want to know concretely what does that look like? How do we slow down? How do you encourage people?
To slow down oh what are in practical terms steps they can take to stop the relentless cycle of speeding up
[00:35:36] Leslie Martino: so one of the things that I feel is a direct benefit of slowing down and one of the steps that people often move to is when they say, okay, I think I need to slow down, it's trying to regain some sort of connection and feeling of closeness with their children, with their family members, with their loved ones.
And so sometimes it's just creating that space and that time to be able to appropriately Connect. And when I say appropriately we are often moving alongside of our children or loved ones or doing things for them or just busyness alongside of them, but there's no time for it. Conversation and not a conversation like, did you do this?
Did you do this? Did you do this? Oh, please. I'm going to the dishwasher. Do that. It's like real conversation. And you get on the phone with a really good friend and you're having a really great conversation about something. What does that look like? And what does that feel like? Can you have at least one conversation a day like that with your child where it's an honest exchange where there's no agenda?
or there's no pressure attached. And so I think that which is why in one of the chapters, when I talk about routines one of the things about routines I talk about the idea of creating routines to allow for slowly maturing plans. So we are often like we've got our to do list. We have our things to do and we need to do just knock off those things off of that list.
But some, if we can create routines that allow us to temper those plans a little bit, then what does that really mean? Then we're going to be trying to calibrate our speed a little bit better. That means we're going to create routines and set up just a day to day that I like the expression that you use.
I think of it as like margin, healthy margin in the middle. I sometimes when you are, booking appointments or back to back or what is that margin that you need in the middle just to be able to breathe, and 45 seconds. So I think it's also realizing that the things that we think are mundane are actually things that we should build into our schedule and want.
Like we should time is complex. We often equate time with productivity and we need time to get this done and this done. But what if we, created time or routines that, allowed time for pursuing passions, allowed time for for productivity, of course, but rest.
What about rest? We often don't plan our rest, and I think that, that is some of the way, those are some of the ways that, that we slow down. So if we think about, things that fill us up or things that we enjoy. That, that are just for that purpose, then maybe that means, I know for me, that means I'm going to be out in the woods somewhere.
I'm going to go hiking. I'm going to slow down and take a walk. I like to, I like fast walking and I like slow walking, but I like to associate walks with some other activity. Let's take a thinking walk or let's take an observing walk because it, it helps you slow down in a different way.
And I think, routines are big ones or thinking about what pillars, who wants to go to bed and just their head on the pillow at the end of the day and just feel like dissatisfaction because I don't know, things didn't happen in the day that you wanted them to, or you didn't get enough done or.
But what about setting up your days so that you had pillars. Pillars are things that are strong that hold up a structure, right? So what are some pillars, whether it's your homeschool day, like that are holding up that structure of your day, that if those things were not there, everything else would seem like it fell flat.
For me. For for our family, one of those pillars is connection, deep and meaningful connection. If I spend a day and we're just, moving like past each other or talking past each other or just, doing all the things, do doing math or doing, let's read or, but there's no heartfelt connection, where I was able to get into your space, look into your eyes, be close to your body, or just all the different ways that we connect or.
That, that is a pillar. If that has not happened, the other stuff for us, just it doesn't matter. So I think it's great to create those pillars and to say, what are they for our family? Those are some other things that I always encourage families to do to slow down.
[00:40:05] Hunter: Yeah. I'm almost like, as you're describing this, I'm almost thinking like creating boundaries around your to dos, or protecting those important things. And for us my family most of the time eats meals togethers. or dinners anyway, because they're not home during the day for lunch. And lunch we're all eating in all different places. But dinners where we talk to each other, we connect, we really have a lovely connection.
That's that would be that pillar of connection in my own family. It would be that time. Yeah. And so I guess you're asking us to identify what those are. But then the boundaries around to do's like, it's interesting, right? Because a lot of us feel good if we get things done during the day, but we also feel what you're saying is that we also feel good when we have rest, when we have connection, when we go have time in nature, right?
So Yeah. But that requires boundaries around the to dos so that we can do that. Like for instance, like I, I don't ever check my email after five o'clock in the evening. I, sometimes I miss things. Because other people use email in a different way, but that's how I use email and I miss things and I often actually never ever check it at all on Sundays or look at all on Sundays is what I usually do.
So is that what you're describing is like for sure let's, we have, we live in a culture that's saying do more, go more faster. More, more is how you are valuable. And what I'm hearing from you is that, no, this, that's wrong. Yeah. You're valuable intrinsically and just.
Yes. F that message. And create your own boundaries around that message. Get some stuff done, have productivity, but also remember these things that are valuable.
[00:41:53] Leslie Martino: Yeah. And, we we sometimes treat everything like it should command our attention equally. And that's just not true.
I think we also need to be realistic. Think about conversations with my daughter where, you know, as a teenager, she's learning to manage her time better and better. And she'll say I'm just going to do this real quick before we leave or, and I have to back up and say, okay, hold on. If we're it's 1215, you have to get to this doctor's appointment.
We're leaving the house at one is 45 minutes. Really all, is that, are you saying you can get that? That be realistic. Like I think we are like, I'm going to do a one hour task in 15 minutes and then feel stressed when I didn't get it done. That doesn't I don't think that, I don't think that really works.
But I really like how you also brought that that idea, which I do talk about in the book is that we are intrinsically valuable and we have a lot of value to give. And I think, we are meant to figure out how and to use our education to figure out how. I'm not valuable because of how much I can produce alone.
That's not,
[00:43:06] Hunter: amen. Amen. This is lovely. If you are a homeschooler, I highly recommend the “Joy of Slow: Restoring Balance and Wonder to Homeschool Learning”. You can get it anywhere. Books are sold. It's been such a pleasure to talk to you. Leslie can be found at LeslieMartino.com. If you want to find out more about what Leslie and what she does, but I love, I've really enjoyed talking to you.
Do you have any last thing you wanted to share, leave the listener with as we wrap up today?
[00:43:38] Leslie Martino: Sure. If you listen to this podcast or you read the book and you're like, you're thinking. There are some areas of my life I'd like to slow down, or there's things I'd like to do differently.
I really do hope you, you find the courage to do it. And I would encourage you to just do one thing, take one thing, focus on one area of your life. Don't try to do it all at once. This is not about creating some other system that's overwhelming. There, there's no one way or one right way to slow down.
We are all unique. Our families are all unique. And if that's a desire of yours, just pick one thing and start there. That's my advice.
[00:44:18] Hunter: That's beautiful advice to be left with. I appreciate that so much. Thanks so much for coming on the Mindful Parenting Podcast and sharing your time with us today, Leslie.
[00:44:28] Leslie Martino: I appreciate this. Thanks for having me Hunter. It was great conversations.
[00:44:38] Hunter: Thank you so much for listening. I really enjoyed talking to Leslie, and I think, yes, we need to slow down. Sometimes life gets so fast, and especially for kids. This is it. This is their only childhood, so let's not rush through it, right? Are you with me? If you are interested in learning and things like that, I have another episode for you to check out.
Check out Episode #271, “Montessori at Home and at School” with Simone Davies. And you'll also like Episode #143, “Simplify with Montessori at Home with Jeanne-Marie Paynel. I think you'll like both of those quite a bit. And if you know someone who could use this, who could like this episode, text that person about the show right now. You could just send it to them- quick text message- and that's such a great way to support the Mindful Parenting podcast too. Yeah, let me know what you think. I'm a Mindful Mama mentor if you want to give me any feedback.
You can also leave me a voicemail. At mindfulmamamentor.com/VM, you can find my voicemail and you can do leave a question for a Q&A and we'll do a Q&A episode of the podcast.You record your question, I'll play it, I'll play my answer on the air. How cool would that be? Or if you have some feedback, you can just tell me, leave me a voicemail, I'd love to hear from you. Or find me on social media, those are also great, and I hope you have a great week! I hope that this episode helps you slow down and be more present with your kids and with every everyone you love and you're and I'm gonna try that too.
A little more slowing down, I think, would work for me really right now. Oh my goodness. Yeah, my oldest daughter, she's a senior in high school now. So we're doing the college thing, and it's she's doing all these applications, and we've done all these school visits, and she's writing all these essays for scholarships, and I'm helping her to edit those essays.
I don't know, it's a lot, and I'm just like, oh my god, she's gonna be gone. Yikes. We'll see. But whatever you're going through, I wish you some peace, and I'll be practicing for that too. Every day I And I practice. Thank goodness for that. And if you want some more support, like some support and mindfulness, go to mindfulmamamentor.com. By the time this comes out, I hopefully have a mindfulness meditation for parents course out that you can do. So hopefully it's there now. Anyway, wishing you a great week, wishing you peace, wishing you slowness. Thank you so much for listening, and I will be back with you next week to talk to one of my favorite people in the whole wide world, Cathy Cassani Adams, so make sure you're here, and I will talk to you then. Namaste.
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