Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh is a Board-Certified Pediatrician in Los Angeles, California who specializes in parenting, wellness and Integrative Medicine. He may be best known for his popular Instagram @DrJoelGator, where he offers weekly parenting and integrative pediatric support, and is the author of "Parenting at Your Child’s Pace: The Integrative Pediatrician’s Guide to the First Three Years".
515: Western AND Holistic Health For Your Child; Kids Health Series #2
Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh
What should we parents be doing to keep our kids healthy? Dr. Joel ‘Gator’ Walsh tells us that sometimes parents come to the pediatrician too much and are too quick to ask for antibiotics when our kids are sick.
Hunter and Joel talk about balancing western medicine with holistic medicine approaches for our children’s health.
Western AND Holistic Heath for Your Kid [515]
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*This is an auto-generated transcript*
[00:00:00] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: Do we need to take this? I think that's the question because sometimes a doctor will feel like you do and they should be able to answer why. And that's not crunchy. That's not out there. That's just being a good mindful parent.
[00:00:13] Hunter: You're listening to the Mindful Parenting Podcast number 515. Today is Kids Health Series number two, where we're talking about western and holistic health for your child with Dr. Joel ‘Gator’ Warsh.
Welcome to the Mindful Parenting Podcast. Here, it's about becoming a less irritable, more joyful parent. At Mindful Parenting, we know that you cannot give what you do not have, and when you have calm and peace within, then you can give it to your children. I'm your host, Hunter Clarke-Fields. I help smart, thoughtful parents stay calm so they can have strong, connected relationships with their children. I've been practicing mindfulness for over 25 years. I'm the creator of the Mindful Parenting course and teacher training, and I'm the author of the international bestseller “Raising Good Humans Every Day”, and the “Raising Good Humans Guided Journal”.
[00:01:41] Hunter: Hello! Welcome back! I am so glad you are here. Listen, if you've ever gotten some value from this podcast, please do me a favor and just tell a friend about it.
It really makes a huge difference and I really appreciate it. And a big welcome if you're new. In just a moment, I'm going to be talking to Dr. Joel ‘Gator’ Warsh, Board Certified Pediatrician and author of “Parenting at Your Child's Pace, The Integrative Pediatrician's Guide to the First Three Years”. And we are going to be talking about what we should be doing to keep our kids healthy. He tells us that sometimes we come to the pediatrician too much and we're too quick to ask for antibiotics when our kids are sick. We talk about the whole balancing act between Western medicine and holistic medicine approaches for our children's health. This is a really valuable conversation where, what do we do when our kids are sick? This is the episode for you. And before we dive in, I want to let you know that you can bring me to your workplace or school as a speaker. In the last few years, I've done talks all around the world for groups and we've had so much fun. I'm known for offering evidence based learning in a way that's clear, realistic, humorous, and immediately helpful.
So go to MindfulMamaMentor.com/speaking to book your dates if you'd like to have me come to your place. Or maybe just virtually- that's cool too. I know you're going to love this episode. I know for me, I straddle the line between crunchy, natural, and, wanting to, I walk that middle path, right?
Between having, of course, embracing our wonderful Western medicine and sometimes being skeptical of it and looking at what do we have that's natural that we can do but not rejecting the Western and this is exactly what this conversation is. So I hope that you enjoy it and join me at the table as I talk to Dr. Joel.
Dr. Joel, so much for coming on the Mindful Parenting podcast.
[00:03:57] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: Thank you for having me here. I'm super excited to chat.
[00:04:00] Hunter: I'm so glad you're here. And we're going to be talking about child development, which is so important. And you're, of course a pediatrician and author, but you're also the parent of a child in the thick of it. Four and four months old. How's it going so far with four and four months? Are you tearing your hair out yet?
[00:04:20] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: I'm doing okay. It's about as good as I would have hoped it to be. There, there's only so much sleep that you can expect to get. The second one is easier to go to sleep, but it doesn't sleep as long at night than the first one.
The first one we were really lucky he slept really well. There's only you can only be so happy when you're sleeping, four to six hours a night in stretches, but I guess that's expected at first, I'm doing pretty well, and they're both really good, so I feel really lucky.
[00:04:42] Hunter: Yeah, four months is a really tough age before those first six months, and yeah, sleep, I feel like, is such a weird thing you never know how you're gonna react to it until you're in such a sleep deprived situation, you may have the best intentions to be like chill and wonderful you want to be like a wonderful parent at night, and then you're like, I am a dragon, hey, having children now, it just can affect people intensely, I think, sleep.
[00:05:10] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: I think so. I don't know how it wouldn't affect you if you are being woken up multiple times per night, if you're only getting a few hours at a time. We know how important sleep is, and especially if you are, used to sleeping throughout the night for, 20, 30, 40 years, and then all of a sudden, you're not, it can really affect you, really affects your immune system and your mental health and I don't think there's really any way to prepare for that.
Maybe going through residency a little bit, but even that, not really. But there's really no way to prepare.
[00:05:40] Hunter: Yeah. Yeah, and there's not much of a Solution to that problem. I think like other than maybe two people some people get like a sleep nanny like that's the thing people Yeah, you could get a sleep nanny.
[00:05:51] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: Yeah, if you want to I guess that's an option and some people do but yeah I agree. There's not really I think that's really a huge option. I think the best thing really is to at least acknowledge and talk about it so people are prepared for it and try to prepare your life as best as possible knowing that you're probably not gonna sleep the best for a couple of months.
And so if you are able to take off some time, then I think that's really helpful. Can share the load with your partner. I think that's really helpful, but there's no way around it. I think just the more that you can prepare and set up your life to be a little bit more tired, the better you're gonna, you're gonna do.
Because ultimately, yeah, you're gonna be a little tired.
[00:06:27] Hunter: Yeah, lower your expectations. Yeah,
[00:06:31] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: I think that's true. Lower your expectations of what you're gonna do for yourself, what you're gonna be able to do during the day, how much you're gonna be able to get done. I, we sometimes think that we want to be the air quotes perfect parent but what does that really mean?
And certainly when you're tired, then maybe that's the time order a little extra food, or you order some grocery delivery, or you get some help to do laundry, or whatever it is that you need. I think that's very reasonable, especially in those first couple of months.
[00:06:56] Hunter: Yeah. And this is where we know, we have to acknowledge that it's bananas that in the United States parents get zero paid parental leave and a lot of parents are expected to go back to work two weeks after maybe pushing a baby out of their body.
Who's that?
[00:07:10] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: Yeah. I don't know how anybody does that. It's insane to even think, to me, to go back before a couple of months. I think you need that time. It is hard. Even. Now my child is, as of this podcast, four months, and it's still exhausting. We're still getting up a lot. And that's in a very good case scenario.
He's still sleeping four to six hour stretches, which is pretty good. There are a lot of my patients that might go, one hour, two hours, and that's all they get multiple times the night. Then I don't know how you can focus the next day. That's not easy.
[00:07:37] Hunter: Yeah, there's no point in, in, in having a worker who's can't His brain is that addled.
Okay, so you decided to go into pediatrics. What just want to dive into sort of your background. Were you always interested in kids? Was it something you were more of a medicine guy? Like, how did you get interested in pediatrics?
[00:07:59] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: Yeah, I think it was a mixture of Number one, I did always love working with kids.
When I was younger, I was, I started by coaching my brothers baseball and hockey teams. I grew up in Canada obviously they had to play hockey and, I really liked doing it. So I started working at camps and teaching kids at camp. So I knew that I loved working with kids. And then as I went through school, I loved science.
And so I did over time feel like I wanted to become a doctor. And so those two things. Molded together when I went to medical school was just to become a pediatrician. There wasn't really another option I knew that I like working with kids and so Yeah, that kind of led me here,
[00:08:31] Hunter: you know as you learned about child development, you know I'm wondering if there are is was there anything so that surprised you like there are there any Misconceptions that we have about children's development that are like commonly out there that we need to just set straight right away.
[00:08:48] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: I think one of the big, I don't know if I'd call it lessons, or just very interesting discussions that have happened over the last couple of years was about crawling. I, Crawling was something that we were taught as just a normal part of the developmental milestones, and it was always part of the charts, but when they had, when they redid the developmental milestones recently, they took out crawling as an essential milestone, and I had posted on Instagram about that.
And saying, yeah, I, I think it's okay. I don't think crawling is that essential. It's fine if they just go to walking. And I was really interested, it was really interesting to see how many therapists didn't agree with that and said that they really felt that crawling is essential and that it's really important for your brain and for learning and so that was a really interesting discussion that I had over a few weeks and really learned and it did change my opinion on it, which I still think that if you go from sitting to walking and you never really crawl, do I think that's a major issue? No, not necessarily, but I do think and do recommend that you still work on crawling just based on the very intelligent therapists that work with kids a lot more than I do in this field.
They really do feel like it's very, it's a very essential skill to have. So I think it's important that we still teach our kids to do that. And that's where I think it's important to have some humility too. As a pediatrician or really anybody, because there are so many great petitioners out there that know a lot more about all these topics, and the American Academy didn't really take into account therapists, from what I know, in terms of that discussion, and they were not very happy about it.
[00:10:12] Hunter: Like physical therapists?
[00:10:13] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: Physical therapists, occupational therapists, for the new milestones, and when they took it out, that made a lot of them very upset and just wasn't anything I had ever thought of before.
[00:10:22] Hunter: I imagine crawling has it's interesting because that whole on all fours and like putting yourself off balance, that's an incredible core strengthener.
I know that because my daughter has like a chronic pain issue. She's 17. But one of the things like I'm a former yoga teacher. And one of the things I worked with her on right away was like, having her be on all fours and lift opposite arm and leg. and just seeing how, how her, seeing her core strengthened over time, but I guess that may be one of the major and pieces why crawling is so important.
[00:10:54] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: That's what they had mentioned. Core strength brain mapping, brain, getting both sides of the brain working at the same time. They felt like it was very important. And they also said that a lot of a lot of conditions that they see later in life, if they discuss with parents, They would find that those kids had trouble crawling or never really crawled.
And so I thought that was very interesting that, to think back. Because I never thought of that. I thought, if you go, you don't really need to crawl, right? You need to walk, in modern society. So it wasn't just something that I thought of but they disagree. And I think that's a reasonable, And I agree, I think it's reasonable that we work on making sure that our kids do crawl as part of their development, but not necessarily being super concerned at the exact age when it happens.
[00:11:40] Hunter: Stay tuned for more Mindful Parenting podcasts right after this break.
What are some of the biggest concerns that you see parents coming in with about kids development?
[00:13:40] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: Yeah first of all, that's a great point, because I do feel like there is a lot of concern around development and milestones. And for me, when I wrote my parenting, I wanted to tackle it from that angle, and I didn't really want to discuss all the different milestones and where they were, because I think that's really well documented in other places.
But I do think it's important to really think through what the milestones mean, and when to be worried versus when not to be worried, because I think there's enough to worry about these days, and parents are more worried than ever, and we really are very quick to compare. And the reality is that most kids, in most situations, whatever they're doing is fine, and certainly the milestones are reasonable to have, so you have general guideposts for what to watch for.
Good examples would be walking and talking, average is around 1. And, but that means that half the kids are, let's say, walking before and half the kids aren't. So if your kid's 13 months and not walking, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong or anything to be concerned about. But it's also good to have a general guide, because if your child is two and they still haven't said anything, then that's pretty far from average.
And then that means we probably do want to get them into some therapy or some evaluation to make sure there isn't other things going on. So to me, as a pediatrician, what we're looking for is the general picture at any point in time. So if you tell me, my child isn't walking but they're 13 months, I'm not worried at all.
If you have other concerns, like maybe they didn't crawl, maybe they were sitting late, maybe they had some strength issues, maybe they've been sick all the time, if there's some sort of bigger picture, then maybe that's something that we would be a little bit more concerned about. If it's just one milestone, usually we're not that concerned.
And especially if it's very specific milestones. If you get a book on the different developmental milestones, there's a lot. And sometimes a parent will come to me and say, Hey, Johnny isn't stacking 10 blocks. I'm worried. The book says they're supposed to be stacking 10 blocks. And my first question will be do you have blocks at home?
Have you tried it? And a lot of times the answer's no, right? So a lot of the skills also are very specific to actually working on them, and so you don't necessarily have to be worried if your child isn't stacking 10 blocks if you've never tried to stack 10 blocks.
[00:15:42] Hunter: Yeah, that makes sense. Some of the bigger ones to pay attention to, walking, talking, I guess brain development, those are one of the, some of the things that we're worried about is what are some of the, outer edges of the norm of, for talking, like the later edges.
[00:15:57] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: 18 months. So usually in the office if a child hasn't said any words by 18 months, the recommendation would be to get them evaluated at that point. If you have other or bigger concerns before then, you certainly could but if you haven't said a word by 18 months, then usually it's worthwhile to go and give out.
And even then, most of the time, it's not an issue. Most of the time, it's just a child who has decided for whatever reason they don't want to talk, and then all of a sudden they, they just start. Talking and they never stop. So it's reasonable to get evaluated so you don't miss something, but even if you get to that later stage, it doesn't mean that there's an issue.
It's just good to know about it.
[00:16:31] Hunter: Are you are you getting, now that you have, you're four month old and you're four year old, are you getting the sense of, like, when you have your second child and you are just so much calmer and so much more relaxed as a parent, even, maybe you can probably even tell it for the first four months?
And do you notice that in your office and with parents and the way that we are with first versus second child? Absolutely.
[00:16:54] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: Absolutely. That is one of the most interesting things that you watch as a pediatrician, the difference of concern level and questions between a first child and a second child and a third child.
It's with the first child, you're worried about every little thing, and then oftentimes with the second or third, it's like, why didn't you call me three weeks ago for that issue? I think it's because we don't have a frame of reference. That, that's why you have a doctor, right?
Because a doctor has a little bit different frame of reference. We've seen the viruses, we've seen the colds, we've seen, A lot of these things, many times, so you come in, it's the worst cough you've ever, your child's ever had, and we're like, ah, that's nothing. And that, that's what I think is a good partnership and a good team.
And so I think it's okay to be nervous as a parent. We just don't want to be overly nervous. And that is where, a good book or a good program or courses can give you some guideposts of what to watch for. But then having family around, talking to your doctor, those are good times, to discuss if you are aware of something.
But yeah, for sure we gain a frame of reference as our child gets older and then for our second child, if something happens, then we can compare to that first one. And we don't want to make too many comparisons, but it does help to, I think, decrease our stress when you're like, oh yeah, my other one didn't talk till they were 50 months.
I'm not worried at 30 months. That's what I've seen. So it does give you some. Some calm, I think.
[00:18:05] Hunter: Yeah, I feel bad in some ways for like those first children with those we're all so anxious and stressed out. And then the second children have the benefit of a much chiller parent, which is they, of course, emotions inter are and bleed into each other.
So that gives that. Second child may be a little bit of a rag up, leg up on on regulation because they're just not getting like a whole bunch of anxiety in their daily life.
[00:18:35] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: I agree. I think from that sense that's probably true for a lot of families, but everything is a balance. And, for that second child, they might have you being a little bit calmer, but then maybe they have a little bit less attention because there's two kids.
There there's many positives and negatives to being first kid versus second kid versus. Third kid and I think that everything, if it's in balance can be okay. And sometimes it's good to be nervous, too. Maybe that extra nervous did something that was protective for the first child, too.
So I, I think that it can go in any direction, but maybe the moral of the story is, we all want to relax just a little bit when it comes to our kids. I think it's funny, too, because I even make a joke in the book, and I have talked about this many times if I was just standing outside with the sign outside my office, which said it was normal.
We could save 99 percent of the visits, right? Or 99 percent of the texts that I get. Because most of the time when parents are nervous, it's normal. The doctors, the pediatrician, mostly that's our job, right? They're, that's what you do all day. It's it's okay. It's normal. It'll get better.
We see it all the time. And so I, I hope that does bring comfort because one of the main reasons why I try to post online and did write the book was just trying to help parents to, to de stress a little bit and to be a little bit calmer because the reality is that most things that parents worry about, it's normal and it's okay.
It's okay to be, to ask questions and be worried if you're worried, but just knowing that if I get 100 texts, 99 of them are going to be okay, then that means that if you're worried in the night, it's probably still okay. And also in general, something that's a big emergency, it's not.
You're not unsure, like if it's a huge emergency, you know it's a big emergency, you go. So most of the other stuff you have some time and I think that does give parents some comfort that if they're not 100 percent sure then hopefully it'll be okay and they can figure it out as it comes up.
[00:20:13] Hunter: Are there things that, I feel like I'm in the doctor's office talking to you right now we're like, I'm like, what are the things you should worry about? Are there things that you wish parents would stop bringing their kids to the doctor's office for, or just would just.
Kind of ride out or are there things that we you know, you're saying don't worry a lot of the time like What are some things that maybe? we should just could stop worrying about.
[00:20:37] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: I think first of all, what you mentioned before, it is hard sometimes when you have no frame of reference to know exactly when to worry.
But I would say in general, from the pediatric standpoint, fevers, as long as the kid is a little bit older of course, if it's the first month or two, then that's something you want to get checked right away. But for older kids get sick all of the time. The average kid gets like three to five times.
And once you have a frame of reference, you realize it's really. In general, nothing to be worried about if they have a cough, runny nose, congestion, a low grade fever. Most of them are going to last three to five days. The best thing you can do in general is rest, make sure they have fluids, give them some immune support, whatever it is.
You don't always have to rush them into the office for that. If you want to, that's fine. If you're worried about something, if you're worried about breathing, if you feel like the fever's been going on for a long time that's totally reasonable to get checked. But just because your child has a one to one fever but they're smiling and sitting there, you don't necessarily have to come in.
So I, I think that can help parents to, again, put a frame of reference of, it's been going on longer, the symptoms seem more severe, but for when we get sick, what do you do when you get sick? I think parents forget that sometimes. We, it goes all out the window when it's our kid and we forget how many times we've been sick in our life.
What do we do? It gets better. And so sometimes if you can just think about yourself and what you've seen from yourself in your life, you can put it into perspective for your child. And that can de stress you a little bit to give you a little more time to let the body. do what it's meant to do.
Yeah, because sometimes I'm, a child seems perfectly fine and they'll come into the office and I feel like in those situations where there really wasn't anything to be overly worried about, that taking that child out of the house, taking them off the couch, making them come to the doctor's office, that is, is more difficult on their immune system and their stress than just resting at home.
But again, of course, sometimes you need to get seen and that's reasonable. So it's a balance.
[00:22:17] Hunter: Yeah, I think, but I think a lot of parents like we, there's, there's a lot of pressure to be just on and, the perfect parent and things like that, and I think I'm, I imagine a lot of parents feel like I'm not being a good parent if I don't take my kid to the pediatrician's office when they're sick, even if it is, a virus or cold or a fever that just is passing through.
Yeah, for me personally, I remember feeling very like I didn't want my kids to be given too many antibiotics. I know there's problems with that. Maybe you can talk to that a little bit. And I knew that, I don't know and I also know like there, a fever is something the body does to burn off a virus, right?
Like it's in a natural immune response and it if it's not so bad, it's fine. They can hang out and have a fever and drink juice, which they're psyched about and, read stories and all that stuff. I don't know. What do you think about that?
[00:23:10] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: Yeah it's tough to be a parent these days, especially with the social media and the internet because you can google any symptom and see the worst possible outcome and it makes you nervous as a parent because you don't want to be the parent that missed the symptom that you should have gone to the doctor for, that you should have seen, and then you didn't go and then it turned into something worse.
So there's that pressure, which there's no easy way to get around it. For sure, in some ways, parenting is harder. Today than it was before. It's easier, I think, in many ways, and I think it actually is easier overall, but if you go back 50, 100 years, what did you do if your child had a cough? You ask grandma, you ask You know your cousins, whoever was around you and they're like yeah, it's fine, give them, give them some tea and lemon and it's fine.
And now you go online and you Google it and it's oh, it could be this, and it could be pneumonia, and it could be that, and, oh, I'm worried about this, I need to make sure to get it checked when realistically it's just a cough and they're going to get better. So I think that's just something that we have to manage and deal with.
But yeah I think that, like you said, fevers are not a bad thing, right? Fever's not bad, fever's good. Fever is your body fighting off the infection, raising your temperature to help your immune cells to get to where they are supposed to make your body less hospitable. So it's not the fever that's the issue, it's just what else is going on.
And we definitely have discussions about this and I talk about it again in the book, Fever Phobia, because I think it's a big question. And it's a really, actually very helpful discussion for parents that I found in my office early on. Because that really does decrease the visits when you stop to worry about fevers.
We're trained with a newborn to be afraid of fevers. And I think that's the issue because the discussion stops there. If a newborn has a fever, that's a big deal in the first month or two because they don't have a really well developed immune system yet. But once you get older, if you have a toddler, they're going to get fevers all the time.
And if it's a regular fever, like 100, 103, but they're. Smiley and happy. That's their body fighting off the infection. That's not a bad thing. And do you need antibiotics? No, most of the time you don't need antibiotics. There's some sort of, there's sometimes there's a bacterial infection where you need antibiotics for a strep throat or a bacterial ear infection or a bacterial pink eye.
But most of what our kids are getting sick from are viruses. 90 percent or more are viruses. So the vast majority of the time when they get sick, there is no medication that they need. It's really just supporting their body and helping them to rest and get fluids and get a little extra sleep and just giving the body what it needs to recover.
And yeah, we don't want to give too many antibiotics because, Antibiotics are killing bacteria, so it's killing the good and the bad bacteria. If you need it, but if we're giving it just because, then it's affecting your gut, which is its own ecosystem, and that can have downstream effects, and we're just really starting to learn about all of these things.
I'm an integrated pediatrician, and I really try to focus on prevention and wellness and thinking about things, root cause, thinking through the root cause and thinking through what are the complications that might come from something like antibiotics? And it is important to think about because a lot of us as we were growing up just took antibiotics like it was candy.
We didn't really think about it. You had some ear pain, you took an antibiotic. And the research shows very clearly that the more antibiotics you have, the higher your risk of chronic conditions. Even one, one course of antibiotics in the first six months increases your risk for allergies and eczema and autoimmune conditions.
And so that doesn't mean you should take it if you need it, but it does potentially have an effect. And so we should just Use it when we need it. And I think that is true of all medicine, right? All medications potentially have side effects, and there's nothing wrong with taking a medicine if you need it, but we should, it should be our last resort.
It should be taken when we need to because there's a cost to everything, right? And if you're taking a medicine that, that's going to have some potential side effects.
[00:26:40] Hunter: Yeah. I think that's so helpful for us to remember that, yeah, these effects of antibiotics and that fevers is, can be, is a helpful response for the body.
Now I know that sometimes in the members of the community that listens to this podcast, sometimes we have people who, You know I very much am like want to help us all walk the middle path and not be on extremes, right? And, sometimes, people say people get maybe antibiotic phobic, or they want, they get medicine phobic, western medicine phobic, right?
and distrustful of some of those things. For the people who are maybe much more into like natural kind of crunchy parents and are, don't want to give their kids any medicines, what are the medicines maybe that you would encourage those parents to maybe not be so afraid of and to be a little bit more accepting of for when their kids need them?
[00:27:38] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: Yeah, great question. I guess to go back a little bit, so for me, I did all the regular Western training. I trained a great Western program at Jones Hospital Los Angeles and I personally just got a little bit frustrated with the regular system and so that's what led me to start learning about integrative medicine.
I'm not against Western medicine at all. I think that there is a time and a place and we have created a lot of amazing medications that can save your life and things that you would have died from just A couple decades ago, you can be, back and healthy in, in a couple of days and, but I also have seen that chronic disease rates are skyrocketing, we're not focused on prevention, we're spending two, three minutes with a patient we're giving on antibiotics like candy and that to me also was very frustrating and so it took me to start and also meeting my wife.
My wife is also holistic minded and so that kind of opened up my eyes a little bit I'm not woowoo, but I started learning about natural medicine and supplements and herbs. And there are a lot of practices that are used all over the world, but just like you said, I think a balance is what's important.
It's not western medicine or eastern medicine or natural medicine. We should be, Balancing the best of both worlds, and sometimes, yes, your child might need an antibiotic, sometimes your child might need a steroid, it depends on the situation, but like we said, it should be a last resort, it should be something that you need it for, that you should have a good reason to take it and there are many times in western medicine where unfortunately medication is given out because that's the only thing that we're taught, Or, we want to make sure to cover our behinds in terms of liability, so you just give a medication or a parent wants you to do something, and that's the only thing that a doctor's been trained in.
And I think the best example of that is going to Urgent Care. Oftentimes when you go to Urgent Care, maybe a little bit of ear pain, they give you an antibiotic, they send you on their way. And I do think it is really important that you ask questions as a parent. You be a mindful, consumer of your health, or be an active participant, and ask the doctor okay, what are we treating?
Do we need to do it? And A lot of times the doctor will give you medication because they feel like you want one but if you do have a little bit more discussion with them, then you will see that they'll say I thought, the ears look a little bit red, they have a cough, so maybe it's viral.
I think it'd be okay if you held on to the prescription for a day or two, see if it gets better. If it gets worse, watch for these things. Or they might say no, we tested you, it's a bacterial strep, and we need to take it because of these complications. So that is where that conversation really comes in, and asking that one follow up question of whether we really need to take it or not can make a big difference.
And really diving into do we need to take this? I think that's the question, because sometimes a doctor will feel like you do, and they should be able to answer why. And that's not crunchy. That's not out there. That's just being a good mindful parent who wants to make sure that they're doing the best thing for their child.
And you can ask about other things. You can ask about other options. You can certainly learn about Some natural remedies, and there are a lot of natural remedies that have a ton of evidence. We use vitamin D, very commonly now. There's vitamin C. There's elderberry syrup. There is zinc.
These things have a ton of research that they can be helpful for viruses. They're not magic. They don't necessarily cure all diseases but a lot of research has shown that maybe they'll decrease your length of a virus by half a day or maybe they'll support your immune system a little bit, and Even if not, it's very unlikely for them to have side effects versus an antibiotic, which, might.
So I think if we can balance the best of both worlds and find ourselves somewhere in the middle, then that's going to be the most effective. Because a parent wants to do something if their child's sick. They don't want to do nothing if they come in. And so having some options like, oh, honey, or elderberry syrup or vitamin C.
This can be a great bridge for that day or two where they're not very sick. But we're keeping an eye on them. And if it gets worse, we do the medicine. But if not, then at least we're supporting them and doing something. And then if they get better, we avoided the medication which is great.
That's a good thing. If we can avoid using an antibiotic, unless we really need to.
[00:31:20] Hunter: Stay tuned for more Mindful Parenting podcasts right after this break.
[00:31:59] Hunter: Yeah, those antibiotics can, yeah, it's like fleshing out all the good bacteria in your system. And we know now a lot more about like that, that how important that healthy gut bacteria is and other bacteria for all kinds of things in development. I don't know, maybe you can tell me, I'm sure you can tell me more.
Yeah. I don't know, please tell
[00:32:18] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: me. It's one of the biggest fields of medicine, this is what we're learning about and, We're really just beginning to understand the gut microbiome and that environment. You really think about it, it's just a whole world of bacteria. And I believe that we grew up with the word bacteria being bad.
I think that kind of was ingrained in us over time, that bacteria is bad. But realistically, we have, we're filled, we're full of bacteria, right? We're in an ecosystem. And, Bacteria is only bad if it gets into the wrong place and is the wrong kind of bacteria. Otherwise, our whole gut is lined and filled with, trillions and I don't know how many, whatever huge number of cells in there.
And if you put a if you put a medicine in there, it's like a bomb. It kills, it changes up the ecosystem. It changes things and your body is amazing and miraculous. A lot of times it can get back to where it was, but not always. And especially if you're taking something chronically, you're taking antibiotics multiple times.
I mean if you think about, a forest, right? If you start taking out some of the plants and the trees and you start killing things and you start spraying things, and then the environment changes and then other things die and the birds disappear, the bees disappear. That's the same thing in our guts.
If we start killing things. Killing things and it changes up the environment. And sometimes you can handle that and get back to where you were and other times you can't. But I, the research is definitely starting to show that can make a difference. And again, back to the study that I mentioned where even one dose of antibiotics at six months before six months.
has been shown to increase your risk for most chronic disease. Not a lot but it shows that it increases it, and so it's just something that we should be mindful of. It doesn't mean that a parent who gave their child antibiotics should be afraid, should feel bad about it, especially if you didn't know.
I think that's important. You shouldn't feel stressed about it, because most kids do just fine, but we shouldn't give a child antibiotics just because they should need it, and if they need it, then you do it, and there's a risk benefits to everything, and, if you're saving your child's life, that's a good thing.
Maybe a 01 percent increased risk of eczema later on, so be it, alright? That's just part of the deal, but I think we just need to be mindful and thoughtful, just like you mentioned, and if we do that, then that's going to get us most of the way there.
[00:34:23] Hunter: I love this. Dear listener, you have permission and, maybe even a new mantra.
Encouragement to push back to say, why is this needed? Will this, will this go away on its own? Or do we really need this antibiotic or whatever? On that note are there, what would you encourage parents as alternatives? When kids are, have a headache or they have pain or something like that and, At some point we always, I reach for the baby Tylenol or the infant Ibuprofen.
Are there downfalls to that or, and are there alternatives to that we want to consider before we reach for the baby Tylenol or Ibuprofen?
[00:35:03] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: Yeah I think it's very similar. Any medicine. The stronger the medicine, the more likely there is a chance of a side effect. Should you be overly concerned about using Tylenol or Motrin?
No, I don't think so. But if you're using anything chronically, can that cause an issue? Of course. And are there other things that you can use? Absolutely. Let's just talk about pain. And if we're talking about natural medicine, this is the perfect example because what did we do for pain for so long in America?
We gave out opioids like it was nothing, and like it was candy and we realized after time that wasn't maybe the best and what do we do now? We have acupuncture in every hospital, right? That's one of the first line fine treatments for pain, and that was pretty woo, 10, 15 years ago, and now it's not and I do believe that, Very slowly, we're starting to realize, yeah, there are a lot of other options for things that you can do for pain.
Magnesium is a great option. Arnica can be a great option. You could use some coconut oil. There are many different things that you could do for pain. Of course, it's specific to the situation. And if the pain is severe, then yeah, medication can be reasonable. Tylenol can be reasonable or Motrin or can be reasonable.
But yeah, there's a lot of research that shows that can have side effects too. Chronically, it can affect your liver. It can affect your kidneys. Should you be worried as a parent? No, I don't think so. If you need to give your child one dose, but for a little bit of fussiness, should you give your kid Tylenol every day?
No, you should not. That should not be your first option. There are other things that you could do from a natural perspective that are very safe. And to me, why would we not choose something natural first for something minor if we have the option to do there, there's no downside that this isn't a medicine versus natural medicine, or West versus east or us versus them.
There's no such thing. We want healthy kids. We don't want the same thing. We're all on the same team. There's no Pediatricians are not bad people. Integrative medicine practitioners are not bad people. These are just individuals that want healthy kids just like parents do and that's what I want for your child, right?
I want them to grow up healthy. and happy and to me we should be doing the most or the thing that has the least amount of side effects with the most amount of benefits and try that first and work our way up except in an urgent situation of course then if there's something extreme then we you know medicine there's nothing better than medicine in an emergency situation that's where we probably thrive the most is in the emergency department x rays MRIs I mean they can do some magical things in the hospital but again, you don't want to be in the hospital, right?
That's easier if you're, if you need to be.
[00:37:23] Hunter: Yeah. Okay. This is great. So I think this is a really helpful, holistic, like viewpoint of this and very middle path, which makes me very happy. So the, before we go, I would love to just briefly explore the compliment, of course, to our medicines and our pediatricians and things like that is our nutrition, right?
And our, of course, then there's, I guess there's our whole lives, but let's look at our nutrition. Are there developmentally things that parents, what would you love for parents to be paying attention to nutritionally for kids? And how, how would you encourage them in that?
[00:37:58] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: Yeah, that's a wonderful question and a great place to, to, booth the next part of the conversation because let's just start here.
Chronic disease rates in kids are skyrocketing, right? We know based on the research that 40 to 50 percent of kids now have a chronic disease, eczema, allergies, mental health autoimmune condition. The number is staggering and scary and we're going in the wrong direction and that is something that we have to take note of and make some changes.
And to me, the big places that we have some control as a parent are the modifiable lifestyle factors that we can control. We do every single day. So I call it The Seeds of Health. And in my book, in the first chapter, I really wanted to focus on setting the foundation for health and starting from day one.
So I have the Dr. Gator smoothie, that's where we start because in all the books when you watch on the daytime TV shows the Air Quotes Guru goes on and they're like, Oh, take this magical smoothie, it cures everything. And the reality is there's no such thing, right? There's no such thing as a magical smoothie that cures everything.
We have to focus on the foundations. And so I start with a big scoop of the seeds being stress, environment and toxins, exercise, diet and sleep. And then you throw in a vitamin D, getting outside, family time, a happy home. These are the things that are really the core foundations. And so that's how I start the book, talking about how we can really focus back on the things that we have some control over.
And then Big two for me are diet and toxins. And so that is why I love talking about the food that we're eating because I do think that is a huge part of what's going on. We're not getting the nutrients that we need. We're eating a lot of foods that are prepared, that are not fresh, that have a lot of preservatives and chemicals.
And a lot of sugar, and we're just not getting the fresh produce and the fresh food with the nutrients that we need. We're not cooking enough in general. We're not getting food locally enough. And how do we expect our children and ourselves to be healthy if we're not getting the nutrients that we need?
And add to that, that they're being sprayed in chemicals, that we're eating a lot of chemicals and preservatives, And those things add up over time. You eat one piece of cake, it's at the end of the world? No, I don't think so. But if you're eating not the best food every day for five or ten or fifteen years, does that catch up with you?
Yes, and I think that's what we're seeing and that's why we're moving in that direction. And so if I was to give one piece of advice to parents, that's something that's pretty simple that you can do today that makes a big difference, is to read labels. Is to start reading the labels of everything that you buy from now on.
You do not need a PhD. In, in chemistry to know that this is a real word versus this is some long chemical name that I don't know what it is. If you don't know what it is, it's probably not good for you. And so if you're comparing two labels, try to buy the one that has the ingredients that you know.
It doesn't mean you have to go from chips to broccoli. I understand that sometimes healthier things can be more expensive. It doesn't have to be always, but you can certainly look at the two bags of chips, look at the ingredients and pick the one with the better ingredients. Every little bit helps, every small change, every better ingredient makes a difference, and it adds up over time.
And that is something that we can all do, and you can start to learn about these things if you want to over time. I think that's a great place to go, but you don't have to make a full kitchen change in one day, but you can, when you go shopping, read the labels and be a mindful consumer. And that to me is going to get us a long way.
And we're going to start putting pressure on the companies to make better products because we're not going to buy the products with crappy ingredients and then they'll make better products.
[00:41:20] Hunter: Yeah, I think that, but I couldn't agree more. I think that It makes such a big difference. And there is a middle path.
My kids go to a or when they were little, they went to this like summer camp in my community. And all the parents would pitch in and bring a snack and then for a while and then I ended up joining the board just to do snack one year because the year before, oh, one parent had brought in Klondike bars and Mountain Dews for every single kid in the neighborhood, but I was like, oh my god.
Mountain Dews! Every kid is having a Mountain Dew! And a Klondike Bar! Whatever, it's fine, whatever, once in a while have a Mountain Dew, but, oh my goodness, it just drove me crazy, so I brought in the hummus and crackers,
[00:42:05] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: which is great, though, which is great. You feel like you're the crunchy one, but the reality is people are starting to realize this, right?
People are starting to realize it, and the stats don't lie. Our health is important, and it's not crunchy. You're not out there. You're not the weird parent for saying that you don't want your kid to drink Mountain Dew or Kleiner. Yes, again, like if you're at a party one time, fine, but if that is the norm and people start all bringing in Chocolate bars and cakes and Klondike bars and sodas and that's what they're having every day.
Then, over the whole year that makes a difference, that means you're having a soda every day and that, that's not what we want. So I think as a community, it's beautiful to hear that, that is important, like you join the committee, you make sure the food is is reasonable.
It doesn't, again, it doesn't have to be kale chips, right? It could be something in between but it, there, there is it is important that we take this and we are mindful of it because the food that we're giving our kids is not the same food that we, when we were growing up, we And the availability of these crappy foods that isn't even real food is so pervasive and they're eating it so frequently.
And I just don't think that most kids can handle it. They just cannot. And we're seeing it in all sorts of conditions popping up. And it's up to us as parents to take back this part of parenting and say, look, we want you to eat healthy. We, I need you to learn how to cook. I need you to learn where food comes from.
I need you to learn what real food is. And if we're doing that 80, 90, 99 percent of the time, then sure, you go to a party, eat whatever else, fine but we are gonna control the food that's in our home, and we're gonna eat healthy, and you're gonna learn to eat healthy. It doesn't have to be crappy, it doesn't have to taste bad, we want Good food but there, there's a huge difference between eating the Klondike bar and, making your own popsicle or something like that.
They can still have a good treat. They can be much healthier and the kids can be involved and they can learn how it's made and how simple it is. And then you're teaching them how to eat healthy. So they go in the real world and they understand. Oh, I ate that food. I don't feel good. Maybe I shouldn't eat that food anymore.
That's what we're trying to get to.
[00:44:03] Hunter: This is great. Okay, so let's calm, let's chill out a little bit about when our kids are sick. We want to calm down a little bit when our kids are sick. We want to be, aware and be able to choose the like less strong medicine when we have that option because we want to think about how, stronger things do have other effects and have effects down the line.
And then we want to pair this with real food. Yeah, I say 80 20 rule, like 80 percent. Yeah, I've been known to have my salad with Cheetos.
[00:44:40] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: You know what, 80 20 is better than 99 1, which is the way that people are eating. Kids, the sugar intake is so high that you're eating more sugar.
By the time you're 10, then most adults ate their whole life. Some studies I've seen, kids are 40, 60, 80 percent eating ultra processed foods, like not real food. It depends on what study you read, but the number's way too high. If you're doing 80 20, that's a great place to start. We're going to be in a much healthier place if everybody starts eating 80 percent real food.
I'd be really happy with that.
[00:45:10] Hunter: Alright, so this has been awesome. Dr. Gator, Dr. Joel, tell us about your book, “Parenting at Your Child's Pace”, and where people can find it.
[00:45:19] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: Awesome. You can find me on Instagram or X @DrJoelGator. The book “Parenting at Your Child's Pace”, it's available at all the regular places where you can get books. You can go to ParentingatYourChild'sPace.com, and it's a book about kids 0 to 3, talking about integrative medicine, integrative parenting, all the questions that I get. in the office talking about a balanced approach and thinking through all those regular questions as well as the stuff that we talked about how to de stress, thinking about de stressing and also focusing a little bit on health and wellness. I think that's such an important aspect that's missing from a lot of The parenting books, and so it's a balance and a blend between those two, but we still get into the regular stuff, the potty training and the tantrums, but yeah, I think it's important to think about how is our eating affecting those things? How is our sleep affecting those things? It does matter, and so I try to set the foundation before getting into those vital things. questions that I get from parents all the time.
[00:46:09] Hunter: Thank you so much for taking the time, for doing the work that you do. And dear listener, you do have to check out Dr. Joel on his Instagram page, and he'd be a great one to follow. Very funny and calming, which is helpful. It's very helpful. So thank you so much for doing what you do. Thank you for coming on the Mindful Parenting Podcast. It's really been a pleasure.
[00:46:32] Dr. Joel 'Gator' Warsh: Thank you for everything that you do and thank you for your amazing book and all the help that you've given to parents. You’re a beacon of light for parenting. So thank you.
[00:46:40] Hunter: Aw, thank you.
Hey, thank you so much for listening. I hope you appreciate this episode and it helped you today. And yeah, if you did just text a friend, text in the screenshot, tell someone who could use it if you liked it. And yeah. Did you know, by the way that we have a quiz? We have so many episodes. We've been doing this for so long. that we wanted to give you some, a way to answer a few easy questions and get a little five episode playlist that, goes to the challenges maybe you're dealing with right now. So go to mindfulmamamentor.com/quiz and you can find, get your unique playlist for that.
This episode, by the way, is part of a whole Kids Health series. that we're going to be doing, that we're part of this month of November 2024. Last week was “Outdoor Adventures for Happier Kids” with Drs. Pooja Tandon and Danette Glassy. And next Tuesday you can hear “Kids’ Healthy Eating and Vibes” with Jill Castle, and that's going to be part of the third in this series. So check it out.
Thank you so much for listening I hope that this episode helps you walk that middle path and keep your kids healthy and strong. Keep yourself healthy and strong. That, of course, is the vital foundation for any kind of good parenting is that you're healthy, you've got some resource, you're resourced for when you need it, and yeah, gotta have those reserves of energy. So, keep yourself healthy too. This is incredibly important. And I'll see you next week for the third in this series, and I'll talk to you then. Thanks for listening. Namaste.
[00:48:35] Mindful Mama Member: I'd say definitely do it. It's really helpful. It will change your relationship with your kids for the better. It will help you communicate better and just, I'd say communicate better as a person, as a wife, as a spouse. It's been really a positive influence in our lives. So definitely do it. I'd say definitely do it. It's so worth it. The money really is inconsequential when you get so much benefit from being a better parent to your children and family. Not feeling like you're connecting more with them and not feeling like you're yelling all the time or you're like, why isn't this working? I would say definitely do it. It's so worth it. It'll change you. No matter what age someone's child is, it's a great opportunity for personal growth and it's a great investment in someone's family. I'm very thankful I have this. You can continue in your old habits that aren't working or you can learn some new tools and gain some perspective.
[00:49:38] Hunter: Are you frustrated by parenting? Do you listen to the experts and try all the tips and strategies, but you're just not seeing the results that you want? Or are you lost as to where to start? Does it all seem so overwhelming with too much to learn? Are you yearning for community people who get it, who also don't want to threaten and punish to create cooperation?
Hi, I'm Hunter Clarke-Fields, and if you answered yes to any of these questions, I want you to seriously consider the Mindful Parenting membership. You will be joining hundreds of members who have discovered the path of mindful parenting and now have confidence and clarity in the process. This isn't just another parenting class. This is an opportunity to really discover your unique, lasting relationship, not only with your children, but with yourself. It will translate into lasting, connected relationships, not only with your children, but your partner too. Let me change your life. Go to mindfulparentingcourse.com to add your name to the waitlist, so you will be the first to be notified when I open the membership portal. I look forward to seeing you on the inside. mindfulparentingcourse. com
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